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What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

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Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#941

Post by johnnyanmac »

chasing wrote: post #318

“Tech” is one of the most rapidly-changing disciplines historically. It was very different in 2016. In 2006. In 1996. In 1986. It will be very different in 2036. If this is your career, part of your job is being aware of those changes and being the person who can help others create value from whatever new technologies come around. I’ve always found these changes exciting and fun, but I’ve also been aware my entire ca…

>Trepidation is a part of excitement.

Sounds like a line I'd hear straight out of Cyberpunk. Or perhaps Outer Worlds.

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#942

Post by prime_ursid »

burnte wrote: post #911
dan_q wrote: post #710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "us" vs "them" thought pattern is the essence of "Western" (read: white, European, colonialist) culture, dating back to Plato's Republic. Marimba Ani's seminal work Yurugu is a sociological study of this culture from a non-western perspective. I can't recommend it strongly enough if you want to understand the nexus of social/psychological/epistemic factors that sustain the "us" vs "them" thought pattern and its c…

> The "us" vs "them" thought pattern is the essence of "Western" (read: white, European, colonialist) culture, dating back to Plato's Republic. No, us vs them is an innate aspect of human psychology going back tens of millions of years. It is found in literally every single group of humans that numbers more than 20.

Source: it was revealed to me in a dream

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#943

Post by johnnyanmac »

tossitawayplz wrote: post #97

A lot of people truly enjoyed the craft and creativity of building something. That is being stripped away. The building is being outsourced now. In some cases, the design too. Everything they once enjoyed and took pride in is being done by machines now. That is not a good feeling. Imagine you are a master craftsman, a furniture builder. You sourced the wood, designed the furniture, built it by hand, took pride in you…

It can be a bit sad scrolling through reactions to stuff like this and seeing a bunch of shrugs or outright dismissals of the issues highlighted in the article.

But this was a nice breath of fresh air and gave me a bit of needed optimism. So thanks for posting this comment. My background is game development, so perhaps I'm not really in "tech" the same way but am more of an "artist" who definitely sympathizes with real artists. But that background definitely had me more scrutinous to what AI can do and how it can take over one's mind. Which is poison to an artist who needs to constantly figure out how to channel their experiences to bring out new creations.

I'm still sadly on the "find a way to provide for myself and my family" phase, but I too hope to live a life like this. One for me and my loved ones, not to serve some coporate overlord.

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#944

Post by johnnyanmac »

vrganj wrote: post #655
NateEag wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have channeled a great deal of my anxiety, stress, anger, and sorrow with this comment. Every day at my job I search for a chance to write some fragment of code by hand, a place where just for a moment I remember the joyous struggle to be a craftsman. I have the sense that you're right - musicians, writers, illustrators, actors, animators - they largely seem to hate the way the genAI companies vacuumed up everyth…

I wonder if an indie games studio might be the place for both kinds of craftsmen to create unique rewarding quality work.

It sure is... it's also doing terrible right now if you are trying to do it for survival. Games has never been stable, but AI as a catalyst has also accelerated that.

But if financial survival isn't in the equation I can think of no better way to truly express your creative and technical intent than with a nice game.

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#945

Post by lrvick »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #935
lrvick wrote: post #198

I am finally able to deliver on years of backlog ideas thanks to the GPUs I racked up in my garage. Having a blast. Everyone I know fully dependent on corpotch seems pretty sad though. I frequently suggest that they stop. It has not worked.

> I frequently suggest that they stop. It has not worked. Are you offering to make up for their lack of a job yourself? If no, I'm not surprised people don't just upend their lives for... nothing? Especially in the days where getting any job after quitting is a massive ask. It's rough out there.

Every single new innovation in technology wipes out giant swaths of jobs. The invention of the loom, the printing press, the refrigerator, the radio, automobiles, the internet... etc etc. Technological progress is not evil, and those of us that adapt quickly do not have to apologize to anyone for doing so. Those that learn those technologies early and adapt fast have a major advantage.

Those that just want complain and hope the technologies are going to go away, and refuse to adapt how they work, should probably move to a country with socialized healthcare and universal basic income ASAP. I know this is harsh, but I do not make the rules.

My way of helping is freely mentoring the smart and motivated that shows up in my communities. Beyond that I have to focus on adapting to the transition myself.

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#946

Post by fragmede »

estearum wrote: post #814
fragmede wrote: post #809

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 1.9 million out of roughly 130 million jobs in the US, putting it at about 1 to 1.5 percent. Not 0.01%

What is?

> which could not have possibly have employed more than 0.01% of people at its peak.

I was refuting your made up statistic.

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#947

Post by johnnyanmac »

lrvick wrote: post #945
johnnyanmac wrote: post #935

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I frequently suggest that they stop. It has not worked. Are you offering to make up for their lack of a job yourself? If no, I'm not surprised people don't just upend their lives for... nothing? Especially in the days where getting any job after quitting is a massive ask. It's rough out there.

Every single new innovation in technology wipes out giant swaths of jobs. The invention of the loom, the printing press, the refrigerator, the radio, automobiles, the internet... etc etc. Technological progress is not evil, and those of us that adapt quickly do not have to apologize to anyone for doing so. Those that learn those technologies early and adapt fast have a major advantage. Those that just want complain a…

You posted about a lot of worldly things when what I was ultimately asking about was "why are you venting about how your friends not taking your advice to quit their jobs?". And your answer is to talk about how disruption is natural and people are screwed if they aren't already living in a place with safety nets?

Just to align ourselves here: you responded to the right comment, correct?

If you did: well, the answer is unsatisfying. You want your friends to work on a transition to a hazy future which is actively advertising to remove labor from the equation. So instead of keeping their corptech and financially preparing for the storm, they should just quit, try to read the future, and "adapt" to that which has not occurred yet.

I wouldn't subscribe to that thought either; why not do both if it's that important? That's my plan when I hopefully get another job. I know I got maybe 1-2 more jobs in a bad timeline before my industry has a soft collapses. but that's still plenty of money (and a bit of time. Not as much as I'd hope, but some) to help me setup my own moat.

Lastly:

>Technological progress is not evil

"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so"

In other words: intent matters. I don't think Bill Gates developed the PC with the goal to eliminate human computers. I do fully believe the intent of this current "progress" is malicious takeover of techno barons. This is not technological progress with the goals to further humanity, nor preserve the earth, nor even to entertain the masses. It is bordering on the kinds of dystopia we'd call a cheesy movie if we got a script for it.

So I will have to agree with your general idea, but disagree with the current context being discussed here.

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#948

Post by unethical_ban »

zmmmmm wrote: post #898
Dusseldorf wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the reason people get angry about it is that it feels like an asymmetric ask. It feels a bit like saying "everyone needs to come I to the office because I like there to be people in the office, regardless of whether that's what they want." (not saying that's what you're saying here, just trying to shine some light on how it may be perceived)

On top of that, it seems the WFO crowd simply can't help exploiting it to their advantage once they are there. They get less work done, but they hoard higher level decisions about what work should be done. They will say "oh we had this corridor conversation and decided X and Y", and then they will even present the fact that happened as compelling evidence that everyone should work in the office. Whereas I see it as e…

To us, those hall conversations are normal parts of humanity that cut through organizational bullshit and build personal trust.

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#949

Post by ChaitanyaSai »

I don't understand this part. How did they not test the HF credentials?

OpenAI reached out to Hugging Face for help to revoke the Hugging Face credentials they found in their investigation. Hugging Face told them they were already revoked... and that’s when OpenAI realized that the Hugging Face breach was the same incident!

Re: What happens if an entire class of workers loses faith in their careers

#950

Post by casey2 »

It was a historically unique thing for software companies to hire script kiddies anyway it was never going to last. As for actual programmers there are still plenty jobs open and there will be for the foreseeable future since AI is incapable of reasoning.
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