Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

ChatGPT starts blocking direct requests to copy an author's style

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 96 posts

Re: ChatGPT starts blocking direct requests to copy an author's style

#81

Post by dannyw »

colingauvin wrote: post #71
obscurette wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think people behind DeepSeek don't have their own interests? And people/parties controlling people behind DeepSeek?

...are they going to come to my house and delete my local copy? Open weights are a one-way ratchet.

Plus extremely easy to ablate, abliterate, apply steering vectors, etc.

DeepSeek V4 Flash is good enough to do a 1-shot steering vector sweep on itself.

Weights might seem like random numbers, but having weights gives you amazing, control, interpretability, and steering of the model. So many use cases; plus, you can keep it running as long as you want; no depreciations if you self-host, or find a provider that does.

Re: ChatGPT starts blocking direct requests to copy an author's style

#82

Post by Lerc »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #67
chrisldgk wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference here I think is that the company (Anthropic, not OpenAI) was specifically selecting rare books for training (and subsequently destroying). I think the value proposition is a much different one in this case. In your example the books are still available in high enough amounts that replacing it is cheaper. If the book is rare enough to not have been digitized for training data yet (which is why Anthropic…

They did it due to some weird copyright argument about copying and destroying the original seeming like a transfer and not copyright violation, which is insane and apparently is mot always interpreted in said way. So they are literally taking a copyright gamble they might lose.

It is fair use to train on books you buy. The anthropic case established that. The destruction of books is just cutting the spine so they have individual pages to scan.

Re: ChatGPT starts blocking direct requests to copy an author's style

#83

Post by Lerc »

chrisldgk wrote: post #62
Lerc wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a really weird perception of the importance of books as if there is a important property to be preserved in every book. This was hilighted to me by a librarian friend if mine, She said they destroy books all the time in her job, and got rather angry when people suggested that it was intrinsicly bad, because there is nothing sacred about simply being a book. It is about the replacibility. They had a program w…

The difference here I think is that the company (Anthropic, not OpenAI) was specifically selecting rare books for training (and subsequently destroying). I think the value proposition is a much different one in this case. In your example the books are still available in high enough amounts that replacing it is cheaper. If the book is rare enough to not have been digitized for training data yet (which is why Anthropic…

I have heard allegations that they might be destroying non replaceable books, but only as a hypothetical.

Replacibility is the standard tbat matters in this which I mentioned in my post. I haven't heard of a specific instance of an occurance of destruction of an irreplaceable book, but I'm willing to look into cases if you have a link.

Re: ChatGPT starts blocking direct requests to copy an author's style

#84

Post by [deleted] »

rymiel wrote: post #69
malshe wrote: post #3

This is rich considering LLMs can't even write like an average person let alone famous authors

LLMs cannot write dialogue between two characters where one person knows a fact and the other person doesn't. It will consistently make the character who shouldn't know something bring up said fact and I have not found a model which will not do this. All these years of LLM research and it fails grade schooler level logic, if it is even slightly abstracted behind a story.

[deleted]

Re: ChatGPT starts blocking direct requests to copy an author's style

#85

Post by Cider9986 »

rymiel wrote: post #69
malshe wrote: post #3

This is rich considering LLMs can't even write like an average person let alone famous authors

LLMs cannot write dialogue between two characters where one person knows a fact and the other person doesn't. It will consistently make the character who shouldn't know something bring up said fact and I have not found a model which will not do this. All these years of LLM research and it fails grade schooler level logic, if it is even slightly abstracted behind a story.

[dead]

Re: ChatGPT starts blocking direct requests to copy an author's style

#87

Post by bko »

chrisldgk wrote: post #62
Lerc wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a really weird perception of the importance of books as if there is a important property to be preserved in every book. This was hilighted to me by a librarian friend if mine, She said they destroy books all the time in her job, and got rather angry when people suggested that it was intrinsicly bad, because there is nothing sacred about simply being a book. It is about the replacibility. They had a program w…

The difference here I think is that the company (Anthropic, not OpenAI) was specifically selecting rare books for training (and subsequently destroying). I think the value proposition is a much different one in this case. In your example the books are still available in high enough amounts that replacing it is cheaper. If the book is rare enough to not have been digitized for training data yet (which is why Anthropic…

I think the important part of books is the knowledge in them. Not the binding or anything else physical. With some exceptions of course and sure there are things to be learned about physical attributes that don't translate to the digital version, but 95% is in the content.

> If Anthropic subsequently released the digitized version of it we’d be having a different discussion, but for obvious reasons they’re not.

I don't think you can scan books and just release a pdf. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Even if you can, I'm sure it's a gray legal area.

Re: ChatGPT starts blocking direct requests to copy an author's style

#88

Post by giancarlostoro »

Lerc wrote: post #82
giancarlostoro wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did it due to some weird copyright argument about copying and destroying the original seeming like a transfer and not copyright violation, which is insane and apparently is mot always interpreted in said way. So they are literally taking a copyright gamble they might lose.

It is fair use to train on books you buy. The anthropic case established that. The destruction of books is just cutting the spine so they have individual pages to scan.

Destroying a book to argue fair use is not accepted as a fair use act is what I was saying, so they're needlessly destroying rare books.

Re: ChatGPT starts blocking direct requests to copy an author's style

#89

Post by idiotsecant »

rymiel wrote: post #69
malshe wrote: post #3

This is rich considering LLMs can't even write like an average person let alone famous authors

LLMs cannot write dialogue between two characters where one person knows a fact and the other person doesn't. It will consistently make the character who shouldn't know something bring up said fact and I have not found a model which will not do this. All these years of LLM research and it fails grade schooler level logic, if it is even slightly abstracted behind a story.

https://claude.ai/share/3cbfd4fe-a386-4528-94ba-238782b7e925

This seems easily falsifiable

Re: ChatGPT starts blocking direct requests to copy an author's style

#90

Post by palmotea »

trentor wrote: post #86
UltraSane wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

99.99% of printed books are worthless.

99.99% of stuff is worthless for most people.

Also what's worthless to you is very much not worthless to others.

A pretty obvious example is genealogical archival records. My family only cares about a few dozen pages out of millions for each US census, but every family cares about a different few dozen pages.

Post reply on HN