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I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

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Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#541

Post by megous »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #215
vinceguidry wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what the deal is with Linux and cameras. I've got Fedora installed on this old Retina MBP and apparently Linux somehow stopped supporting the built in webcam. I've never heard of a device losing Linux support but here we are.

Once the code is in the mainline kernel tree, things tend to stay supported indefinitely. Some devices "work" without having real support by having some binary blob or third party code which is written against a specific kernel version. The code has to be updated when the kernel changes, which is why it's supposed to be in the kernel tree, but because it isn't the kernel developers don't know anything about it and ar…

Once code is in mainline, it's in mainline. It doesn't mean things will work, lol. It means things will rather regularly break, because many people modify shared code you depend on without ability to test on your particular HW.

Not saying pushing mainline is bad. But assumption there's any kind of "support" is wrong. Code is there. That's all. You have to support it if you want it to work.

(This is very particular to HW/drivers support, Linux core is supported well, I guess.)

Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#542

Post by mdp2021 »

emj wrote: post #386
mdp2021 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> stopped using cash You stopped using cash? It is one of the most insane things I ever heard. You transactions are tracked, I assume? The rule in the eu (PSD2) is that a dozen private/public/hybrid/other databases, of unclear substantial identity, will record your transactions. And what if you had a an infrastructural shortage? No transactions then? How can people think of "cashless society" as something outside a d…

Because cash sucks. Haven't used cash in 10 years. I agree it is problematic. I guess a high trust society enables it NL and SE are such places.

> a high trust society

That is in fact a highly naïve, direly naïve society: (*) the data is not contained into national boundaries by law already, and (*) you cannot know what will happen to the country and society in n years time.

Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#543

Post by Anonyneko »

jraph wrote: post #349
Anonyneko wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still a thing with some of the Finnish banks, as I've recently learned. In my bank it costs ~20€ - unless you can't physically use a smartphone, in which case it's free. But you kinda have to know that it exists.

> unless you can't physically use a smartphone Like, because of a disability, or because you don't have a smartphone? In the latter case, would it work to just go to the bank with a dumb phone?

I think it's either. With Nordea, it's seemingly based on whether you are already using the mobile ID app or not.

They also have a different "Talk Device" that is specifically meant for people with disabilities and such, which is supposedly free to get once (80€ for replacements), but the page doesn't specify who can order it.

Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#544

Post by MrDrMcCoy »

seba_dos1 wrote: post #472
fsflover wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The slowness of Phosh is purely a consequence of the current, unoptimized software state. When I run Waydroid on PureOS on my Librem 5, it feels much smoother, despite being another layer on top of the OS.

I bet the vast majority of that slowness people complain about comes purely from GTK renderers. A motivated contributor could do wonders there.

Modern GTK uses a lot of embedded JavaScript and CSS. Unless I come across strong evidence otherwise, that's where I place the blame.

Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#545

Post by fsflover »

handedness wrote: post #480
seba_dos1 wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm getting tired of all this exaggeration. I don't think there's any significant component in the Librem 5 that has even existed a decade ago already. Perhaps the audio codec. Sure, it can be underwhelming today when it comes to performance, but it's still usable and was absolutely nowhere near "challenging" back when it was fresh - also, the software got significantly more usable and performant over time. I have re…

Then read more closely. I didn't say the components existed a decade ago. The performance level of that SoC would have been challenging to get what typical phone users would consider a good experience out of a decade ago. The 2016 Pixel 1, for example was a much higher performance device. Apple's iPhones from that era required considerable tradeoffs to achieve the performance they did. Some owners apparently disagree…

> the need to disable JS to render some modern sites

You hatred towards Librem 5 spread all over HN prevents you from correctly reading my statements. The correct statement is "I disable JS for more security and for unreasonably JS-heavy websites. I do have it on when I want."

Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#546

Post by fsflover »

handedness wrote: post #503
seba_dos1 wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as many, maybe most original backers probably didn't receive theirs until much later Original backers got it in 2020-2021. It took until 2023 to catch up with preorders made already after the original campaign ended. > Purism was a case study in how not to handle delays Agreed. > faulting consumers I haven't faulted anyone. I just made a "if I had a dollar for each time..."-style remark. > It was an absolute mess a…

All fair enough. Edited to add: The people saying, actually, my device also reboots fairly often, do not inspire confidence.

For the record, my device does not reboot often, unless I do it manually for updates.

Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#547

Post by fsflover »

hn_submit wrote: post #439
fsflover wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are actually some people using a GNU/Linux phone as a daily driver for years. I'm one of them.

Maybe you should write a blog about it. I'm interested. I'm afraid there will be too many corners cut. The most important being the lack of available software. I'm of the notion that a computer without software is nothing more than a box of wires.

There are quite a few good write-ups about it already, for example:

https://forums.puri.sm/t/nine-months-librem-5-as-my-only-pho...

https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-5-phone-review/21085

Concerning the software, I can run most Linux apps and most Android apps with Waydroid. See also: https://linuxphoneapps.org/

Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#548

Post by seba_dos1 »

fsflover wrote: post #546
handedness wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All fair enough. Edited to add: The people saying, actually, my device also reboots fairly often, do not inspire confidence.

For the record, my device does not reboot often, unless I do it manually for updates.

Neither does mine. When I'm not rebooting into new kernels and don't let the battery go flat, I reach several weeks of uptime (eventually interrupted by one of the things mentioned).

Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#549

Post by [deleted] »

fsflover wrote: post #545
handedness wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then read more closely. I didn't say the components existed a decade ago. The performance level of that SoC would have been challenging to get what typical phone users would consider a good experience out of a decade ago. The 2016 Pixel 1, for example was a much higher performance device. Apple's iPhones from that era required considerable tradeoffs to achieve the performance they did. Some owners apparently disagree…

> the need to disable JS to render some modern sites You hatred towards Librem 5 spread all over HN prevents you from correctly reading my statements. The correct statement is "I disable JS for more security and for unreasonably JS-heavy websites. I do have it on when I want."

[deleted]

Re: I'm switching my phone from Android to Linux

#550

Post by handedness »

fsflover wrote: post #545
handedness wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then read more closely. I didn't say the components existed a decade ago. The performance level of that SoC would have been challenging to get what typical phone users would consider a good experience out of a decade ago. The 2016 Pixel 1, for example was a much higher performance device. Apple's iPhones from that era required considerable tradeoffs to achieve the performance they did. Some owners apparently disagree…

> the need to disable JS to render some modern sites You hatred towards Librem 5 spread all over HN prevents you from correctly reading my statements. The correct statement is "I disable JS for more security and for unreasonably JS-heavy websites. I do have it on when I want."

Device choice is good. I'm glad the device is an available option for people whose need it meets, and I would welcome a major refresh which addresses its shortcomings so it can have wider viability.

It's low-effort, endless and often misleading shilling I object to.

Thinking back, the last time I had to disable JS to load JS-heavy websites on my phone was probably around 2011, maybe 2012. My more recent experience with JS blocking on desktop operating systems tells me that many JS-heavy websites tend to break pretty badly without it. A few content sites get significantly better without JS, but dependencies like banking and utilities sites mostly no longer work without it. I'm sure everyone's experiences will vary based on their particular needs.

Nearly all phone users have JS enabled by default, and therefore without necessarily realizing it probably expect it to just work.

I don't think it's reasonable to promote, in threads about almost every other phone (no matter how off-topic), an $800 device without at least mentioning that it may require them to make very basic and fundamental compromises to use it.

'Have you considered a GNU/Linux phone? Sent from my Librem 5" is just empty and repetitious shilling at this point. Anyone who's ever seen almost any of your comments here has now heard of it due to your promotion of it.

To elevate discourse above shallow shilling, please consider mentioning any of the compromises somebody may need to address, and then explain why said compromises are worth it in your particular case, and how you got around its limitations (and every device has them). When people say it's not viable for them, consider that they may actually be right about that. Nobody would bother to call you out if you did that.

It's entirely possible for people to find your way of promoting it tiring, without hating you or the device.

A good comment teaches us something. The above is one way to actually do so, while still promoting that which you apparently must. Call this a personal attack if you like, but it isn't: it's an attack on endless and banal promotion of what I maintain would be an expensive disappointment for many, maybe even most, buyers.

Edit: There's a lot of very reasoned pro-Librem-5 thinking in this thread worth noting: https://forums.puri.sm/t/each-update-makes-my-librem5-worse/... Notice how they acknowledge complexity, and their comments don't sound like they could mostly be replaced by a few clipboard presets.

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