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U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

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Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#531

Post by astura »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #473
halls-940 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you look at real wages vs cost of living and the trend line is down and showing no signs of ever going back up, the question will I be able to afford the resources to survive and have a family, will my kids be able to afford a home, that's the growing uncertainty.

Here's the actual data broken out for a variety of locations (I see someone else found the whole country): https://fred.stlouisfed.org/release?rid=439 The data don't support the story you are telling, at least not on a 17 year time scale. Most places including LA and New York actually show the opposite. Real wages are rising faster than cost of living in the long term just about everywhere in the US. I understand the…

>The data don't support the story you are telling, at least not on a 17 year time scale. Most places including LA and New York actually show the opposite.

People point to the 1960s as the "golden age" where everyone could afford everything on a single person working an easy entry-level job. However, that is also a meme, not reality. According to the census bureau median family income in 1960 was $5,600, which is $58,946.59 in Jan 2024 dollars. It's $83,730 in 2024. For individual males, in 1960 it was $4,100 ($43,157.33 Jan 2024 dollars) and $71,090 in 2024.

Sources:

https://www.census.gov/library/publications/1962/demo/p60-03...

https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2025/demo/p60-28...

https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#532

Post by sidewndr46 »

joezydeco wrote: post #15

When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, you can expect that they are going to throttle back once they're away from home with way more free time than is normal. From my kid's experience: she was up at 6:30am, in AP classes by 7:30am (three more to go during the day). Classes were done by 3:00, then sports practice…

If we're measuring this by hours, I had to get up at 4:45 AM to get to middle school. I didn't get home until around 4:30 PM. That's 12 hours a day just to attend middle school. I didn't get any of the advantages of AP classes, sport classes, volunteering, or clubs.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#534

Post by tdeck »

InitialLastName wrote: post #336
tdeck wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have heard that it began to try to keep certain ethnic groups out of university and continued because sports bring in scholarship and (for D1 schools) sponsor money.

Not just ethnic groups. Schools mostly can't say "we only want rich people" but they definitely want to prefer students who will contribute to the donation revenue stream either themselves or through their parents. Signals like "doesn't have a job to take up their time in high school" and "parents can afford (and have the free time to enable) expensive, time-consuming activities" are really good proxies for that.

I knew someone who got into a good school on a crew (rowing) scholarship. I remember thinking "wait doesn't almost everyone who rows crew go to a wealthy private school?"

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#535

Post by fn-mote »

Aurornis wrote: post #187
joezydeco wrote: post #15

When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, you can expect that they are going to throttle back once they're away from home with way more free time than is normal. From my kid's experience: she was up at 6:30am, in AP classes by 7:30am (three more to go during the day). Classes were done by 3:00, then sports practice…

> When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, My neighborhood and social circle have a number of high school age children, some aiming for high ranking universities. None of them have these grueling 15 hour day schedules you’re describing. I don’t even know of a high school around me that starts at 7:30AM. What unive…

> None of them have these grueling 15 hour day schedules you’re describing.

I have contact with a lot of teens. This schedule is not unusual, although the truth IMO is that long hours and poor productivity form a vicious cycle.

> I don’t even know of a high school around me that starts at 7:30AM.

Irrelevant to the argument. NYC has 8am start times.

Notice that the hours were driven by involvement in sports, though.

> What universities are you targeting with such an extreme schedule?

Every highly selective school.

Plus they have no clue what’s really necessary so there’s a lot of “cargo culting”.

Plus, they don’t even know what they’re targeting until year 3 or 4 of high school, years after the long hours pattern starts.

> bubble

You are also universalizing your experience, no?

Frankly, looking at the map of educational achievement, most people are not going to college or not successful there, so this whole discussion of “student doesn’t want to attend their state university” is already a rarified atmosphere.

I agree that this is behavior destructive and unnecessary.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#536

Post by thatfrenchguy »

godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #304
Aurornis wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, My neighborhood and social circle have a number of high school age children, some aiming for high ranking universities. None of them have these grueling 15 hour day schedules you’re describing. I don’t even know of a high school around me that starts at 7:30AM. What unive…

> My neighborhood and social circle have a number of high school age children, some aiming for high ranking universities. > None of them have these grueling 15 hour day schedules you’re describing. Hate to break it to you mate but none of them are getting in. Anyone who lives in a neighborhood with a high proportion of kids making it to the Ivy league and other top schools knows exactly what this guy is talking about…

The fact that everyone in your peer group does it (looking at you, people who are faking research paper contributions by high schoolers) does not mean that it is a criteria for actual college admissions.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#537

Post by fn-mote »

ndriscoll wrote: post #478
godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a good question I would just suggest to you a lot of the behavior around wealth doesn't really make sense if you are just doing that kind of back of the napkin math. Like all the wealthy workaholics who just don't stop. They've so clearly made it and don't have to work anymore, but they can't even take it easy on themselves never mind their kids. I suspect there is a lot in the psychology of an overachiever that…

I mean I've done very well in my life; my wife and I both moved up several classes, but I take ownership of educating my kids. My oldest started kindergarten today, but she's already a couple years ahead, and she's only really in school for social reasons. I don't think school is going to help you to avoid being duped. In fact, if these "elite" educations cost as much as a house, that is the first scam to avoid. Poor…

> one with strong social pressures against […] casual relationships.

!!

Not at all how I expected this to end.

Calling it out so skimmers can see something interesting.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#538

Post by DangitBobby »

astura wrote: post #531
dghlsakjg wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the actual data broken out for a variety of locations (I see someone else found the whole country): https://fred.stlouisfed.org/release?rid=439 The data don't support the story you are telling, at least not on a 17 year time scale. Most places including LA and New York actually show the opposite. Real wages are rising faster than cost of living in the long term just about everywhere in the US. I understand the…

>The data don't support the story you are telling, at least not on a 17 year time scale. Most places including LA and New York actually show the opposite. People point to the 1960s as the "golden age" where everyone could afford everything on a single person working an easy entry-level job. However, that is also a meme, not reality. According to the census bureau median family income in 1960 was $5,600, which is $58,…

Usually when people say things were better back in the old days they talk about what that money could get you, not inflation adjusted dollars.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#539

Post by DangitBobby »

rayiner wrote: post #216
wolttam wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Live in an overall less uncertain environment?

You mean the less uncertainty during World War I, World War II, or the Cold War?

Yes, we should aim for the level of stress and fear associated with the threat of conscription looming over one's head.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#540

Post by cpburns2009 »

nonameiguess wrote: post #449
vel0city wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've known many families around that age (+/- 5 years) with a stay at home spouse taking care of multiple kids. It really shapes their lifestyle in a lot of ways (smaller/older house, rarely eat out, rarely big family vacations, clothes/toys often from secondhand consignment stores, fewer/cheaper vehicles, etc.), but that's what's important to them so that's how they've set their priorities. Most didn't come from ext…

This discussion gets me every single time. All three of my younger sisters are stay at home moms and their husbands make less than I do, and they have kids, whereas I don't. Until you're at least a deca-millionaire, no amount of money will ever feel like enough and you'll be stressed, or at least I will be, and I'm sure my sisters are, but the material differences in our day to day lives are nil. Their houses are sma…

In my anecdotal experience the trend seems to be the less well-off families have stay-at-home moms, while the well-off professionals both work. It largely seems that the "no one can afford kids" idea is an excuse to not give up the DINK life style or at least dual income.
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