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U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

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Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#421

Post by somenameforme »

estearum wrote: post #403
somenameforme wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more that if one doesn't really think one way or the other then life is very much a conveyor belt, and that belt will typically push you into college. And if you're going to go to college, why not go to the best that you can?

Universities are still very good investments for most people who go to them

In the US the overwhelming majority of people aren't majoring in STEM, and the return for most non-STEM majors is likely negative relative to something like a trade. Even for traditionally well paid cognitive work, LLMs are making the future quite murky. Weird and interesting times we live in. Who knows, maybe the future will make fine arts great again? Personally, I won't be discouraging or encouraging my children to go to college. I'll explain the pros and cons in both directions and leave it up to them.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#422

Post by costco »

alephnerd wrote: post #35
joezydeco wrote: post #15

When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, you can expect that they are going to throttle back once they're away from home with way more free time than is normal. From my kid's experience: she was up at 6:30am, in AP classes by 7:30am (three more to go during the day). Classes were done by 3:00, then sports practice…

^^^ This. 100% This. This kind of applicant is now treated as table stakes for programs like UMich, and acceptance rates for impacted majors like CS in top programs have dropped to single digits. It is ridiculously competitive to get into top programs now. I got into an Ivy in the late 2000s to early 2010s. With my stats from back then (13 APs all 4s and 5s, a 4.5+ GPA, varsity wrestling, JV XCountry, NHS, CSF, USAPH…

I'm pretty sure you would get into Berkeley with that profile. Also you can just major in math and get a job as a software engineer anyways. I agree that the system has reached the point of absurdity though. ETH Zurich and KU Leuven have the best solution to this issue in my mind, which is to let everyone in but make the classes ridiculously hard so that 50% leave in the first year.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#423

Post by keeda »

ilc wrote: post #13

To those saying this is soft: https://registrar.mit.edu/classes-grades-evaluations/grades/... If you want to say MIT is soft. Feel free.

Coincidentally just last week a relative recounted a conversation with someone who used to be a student counselor (or psychiatrist?) at MIT who said MIT should be even softer on students. WTF, right? The dynamic, the counselor explained, is that MIT is already extremely hyper-competitive to get into and so it already selects for students who are very self-driven and competitive. Hence they tend to take on a much harder workload than they can handle, especially because MIT courses are no joke either no matter how smart you are.

This causes very high levels of stress amongst a large portion of the student body. The counselor hence wished MIT had even softer policies to make it easier for students to walk away from courses with no repercussions.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#424

Post by UncleMeat »

iugtmkbdfil834 wrote: post #311
cogman10 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First semester, not first year. And I suspect that the filter will still be in play for students because they'll still have coursework to complete. They simply don't get the grade feedback reducing the stress of perfecting that semester while they are still learning the ropes.

We all know how it goes. Minimal adjustment is made to accommodate someone in some way only crazies like me would object to and soon the entire school is pass/fail depending on whether you show up with your own pencil; just to ensure we do not induce stress. Naturally, then stress will be first experienced in first real job, but lets have private ( non-school ) sector worry about that. Maybe they can institute their…

MIT has had this policy for years and years. Did they fall down this slippery slope such that everybody is slacking off and nobody is getting meaningfully evaluated?

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#425

Post by UncleMeat »

ungreased0675 wrote: post #268
cogman10 wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What harm exactly do you think giving a single semester reprieve is going to cause these students?

Employers thinking a UofM degree is a joke. Hiring practices expanding to include multiple take-home exercises to prove competency. Students not fully learning foundational knowledge they’ll need later because the class is an easy pass.

MIT has this policy. Do employers think that MIT degrees are a joke?

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#426

Post by krupan »

_zoltan_ wrote: post #127
bradfa wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are normal adults not "working" in a similar way to your kid for 15+ hours per weekday? Comparable adult parent things would be up at 6am, prep kids for school day, in the office by 8am, 8 hours of work plus a lunch, departing the office around 5pm, transporting kids to/from some activities, dinner, helping kids with homework, somehow fit in regular shopping needs (food, essentials, etc), maybe some volunteering or h…

we wake up at 7, prep the kids to school, they walk there alone then, we have coffee together, then I drive to the office by usually 9:30. have a proper lunch break with colleagues, then in the office until 6pm or so, then drive home, have dinner, put the kids in bed by 8, then we can watch a movie/do hobbies/etc. while I work, my wife can do the shopping and take care of other household chores if needed.

Those aren't high school kids prepping for college that you are talking about. Just wait a few years

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#427

Post by maxwells-daemon »

My college (Caltech) was pass/fail (no quantified grades) for the first couple of terms, and I thought it worked very well. It did alleviate the some of the stress of beginning a higher-expectations environment, but it also let students explore classes they wouldn't have if they had to worry about GPA. I know a few people that changed their whole field as a result; the geology department was known to pick up students this way.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#428

Post by krupan »

t-3 wrote: post #289
freejazz wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At university? You sure about that?

Downsizing and outsourcing hit all non-management positions, the only moat against it was technical expertise, but that's been eroded for quite a while. How much moaning about development being outsourced to India have we heard in the past decade?

Past 2 decades

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#429

Post by semiquaver »

atniomn wrote: post #396
joezydeco wrote: post #15

When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, you can expect that they are going to throttle back once they're away from home with way more free time than is normal. From my kid's experience: she was up at 6:30am, in AP classes by 7:30am (three more to go during the day). Classes were done by 3:00, then sports practice…

I'm 32. In my senior year of high school, I woke up at 5:30 AM, my first class (zero hour) was at 6:30 AM, regular school started at 7:35 AM. school let out at 2:30 PM. I had extracurriculars until 6:00 PM most days. Go home, eat dinner while studying, go to bed at 11:00 PM. I took 8 AP classes and had straight A's. 5 on every test. strong ACT. I attended a prestigious land grant university, like Michigan, and I was…

Thanks for posting this. As someone with ambitious kids that will be in HS soon, this thread and the general doom mood on this topic has been worsening my hypertension…

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#430

Post by squibonpig »

yrjrjjrjjtjjr wrote: post #169
watwut wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Time spent in sports is fun, not work. It is fun when it is fun, when you can skip it or do it purely because you want to. If you go to sports club because you have to, it is work and not fun. If you go volunteer or have to join the club for college application, they become work. They are not fun stuff. > Time spent in gym class and lunch is not work Gym class is work. Kids are not there voluntarily.

If your job required you to sleep 8h a night would that make it less restorative?

That's different lol?
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