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Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

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Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#41

Post by eurleif »

thin_carapace wrote: post #23

melatonin should be consumed in doses an order of magnitude smaller than the smallest available dosage. melatonin should also be consumed in a particular time period to correctly trigger the circadian rhythm. long term consistent melatonin use is not advised outside of special cases (eg elderly where morning cognition is unimpactful). irregardless I don't believe that consuming modified release melatonin is healthy l…

>melatonin should be consumed in doses an order of magnitude smaller than the smallest available dosage.

It's available on Amazon in doses as low as 100mcg: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08MJL2GTC Are you saying this because you believe the correct dose is on the order of double-digit mcg, or because you're under the impression that the lowest available dose is single-digit mg?

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#42

Post by PeterStuer »

Tangentially: as a 'young adult' I was a typical 'night owl'. Cognitivly I peaked between 10pm and 3am, typically slept from 4am to 11am. When I got kids and a more 'regular' job, I was forced to change to a more normal schedule. The transition from 'owl' to 'lark' was not easy. It took about 7 years. These days, I peak 7am to 1pm.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#45

Post by sublinear »

> The results suggest that negative performance effects of exogenous melatonin may outweigh any benefits for healthy young adults

Not surprising at all. The vast majority of people taking supplements are avoiding either the doctor, eating a better diet, or regular exercise.

What are the odds that someone comfortable taking overpriced sketchy pills is also probably comfortable taking other substances? I only have to look at any random suburban strip mall in the USA to get my answer. I always chuckle at the IV drip place next door to the bar.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#47

Post by muvlon »

gleenn wrote: post #28
wincy wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take 300mcg when I’m having a hard time getting to sleep or if I’ve had a lot of caffeine. Mostly because Scott Alexander told me to.

I end up biting a lot of pills to get around that dose. I definitely always felt groggy until I dialed down the dose to just right, and it works perfectly: I fall asleep far quicker and more assuredly, and I don't feel to groggy. I can't believe they sell pills as large as they do, what other medication varies in dosage as much?

They're supplements, not medication, but I've seen crazy variation in the dosages of Vitamin D pills.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#48

Post by thin_carapace »

eurleif wrote: post #41
thin_carapace wrote: post #23

melatonin should be consumed in doses an order of magnitude smaller than the smallest available dosage. melatonin should also be consumed in a particular time period to correctly trigger the circadian rhythm. long term consistent melatonin use is not advised outside of special cases (eg elderly where morning cognition is unimpactful). irregardless I don't believe that consuming modified release melatonin is healthy l…

>melatonin should be consumed in doses an order of magnitude smaller than the smallest available dosage. It's available on Amazon in doses as low as 100mcg: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08MJL2GTC Are you saying this because you believe the correct dose is on the order of double-digit mcg, or because you're under the impression that the lowest available dose is single-digit mg?

the lowest otc dose I previously witnessed was 1mg, perhaps my phrasing should have been "smallest commonly available dosage", because the correct dose is indeed in the vicinity of 100mcg

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#49

Post by rapsey »

johntash wrote: post #17
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #13

Not sleeping impairs my morning cognition - a lot. Melatonin is part of the rotating stacks I use to mitigate insomnia. My mornings have always been impaired, going back to pre-school. Meds don't make my mornings any worse than my baseline.

What else is part of your rotating stacks? Asking as someone who melatonin doesn't seem to help much

Insomniac for 20 years. What was a complete solution for me was: magnesium, b6 p5p (p5p form very important) and the ultimate punch glycine.

Glycine takes some getting used to, as you will have crazy intense dreams at first. But it is a very safe supplement to take even in large doses.

I always had huge insomnia issues after a physically intensive days after workouts. The stack I settled on solved it. A heavy day just needs a bit more magnesium and quite a bit more glycine.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#50

Post by extrabajs »

s-ww wrote: post #22

Next, the same experiment could be done with individuals who would be more likely to use melatonin supplements, or even just a broader group than "healthy young adults". I feel that the starting point of the experiment is a bit flawed since there's a high chance these healthy young adults don't have the problem the supplements are designed for. I'm not surprised about "We found no significant differences between the…

> I feel that the starting point of the experiment is a bit flawed

This is from the first paragraph in the abstract:

> Exogenous melatonin has been shown to improve sleep in individuals with sleep disorders, such as insomnia and delayed sleep phase disorder. However, research on the effect of exogenous melatonin on sleep in healthy young adults is limited.

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