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U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

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Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#381

Post by wredcoll »

randusername wrote: post #372

This is a bewildering article and discussion. Grades and academic performance are outcomes. They're indirect stressors at best; why would one generation suddenly be unable to cope? The real story is what has changed to increase the stakes of grades. I suspect freshmen are taking out historic debt to contend with food, housing, and tuition costs meanwhile the entry-level job market is extraordinarily competitive. Ther…

Famously places like china/india/japan/etc have extremely traumatic final exams. There was just an article about suicides from some kind of (indian?) final exam screw up.

It doesn't take much of a logical leap to associate it with the pressure put on the children taking the tests.

Presumably that kind of pressure ia coming to america.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#382

Post by cj »

margalabargala wrote: post #378
cj wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the environmental change is immense and that it's stressful. Do I think a consequence free first semester is needed to address that? No..

I think there's an odd disconnect that a lot of older people have where they forget the goals of institutions, and assume the goals are the experience they remember rather than something else. For example: what would you say is the point of college, generally? Is it learning? Is it producing functional adults? Or is the goal, itself, to accumulate large numbers of grades that are as close to 100 as possible? That las…

MIT does pass/fail for first semester, but the reason they give is "to allow students to adjust to collegiate workload" -- I'm 100% aligned and support with that.

What I'm not in favor of is a college doing the same thing, but using "mental health" as the motivator. If mental health is really the issue, maybe the kids they're trying to help aren't actually ready for college.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#383

Post by smcg »

KPGv2 wrote: post #180
joezydeco wrote: post #15

When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, you can expect that they are going to throttle back once they're away from home with way more free time than is normal. From my kid's experience: she was up at 6:30am, in AP classes by 7:30am (three more to go during the day). Classes were done by 3:00, then sports practice…

If the sports and clubs are stressful, your kid should find other activities. I did everything you mentioned in the nineties and aughts (my sport was year round and coach expected us to travel on our own dime to tournaments that lasted the entire weekend at least four times in the summer, and during the school year I was out of town most Sat-Sun at tournaments, which take way more time than the couple hours a volleyb…

I'm not sure that you understand how competitive, say, youth sports are. It's not seen as purely recreation, it is seen as a necessary pillar of advancement. Parents don't spend all this time and money sending their kids on travel teams for no reason.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#384

Post by a34729t »

Aurornis wrote: post #187
joezydeco wrote: post #15

When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, you can expect that they are going to throttle back once they're away from home with way more free time than is normal. From my kid's experience: she was up at 6:30am, in AP classes by 7:30am (three more to go during the day). Classes were done by 3:00, then sports practice…

> When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, My neighborhood and social circle have a number of high school age children, some aiming for high ranking universities. None of them have these grueling 15 hour day schedules you’re describing. I don’t even know of a high school around me that starts at 7:30AM. What unive…

I guess then it's good to be a D1-level athlete? (for everybody else, that's basically being a state champ in whatever sport)

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#385

Post by vondur »

t3hTao wrote: post #296
ungreased0675 wrote: post #175

The University of Michigan has around a 15% acceptance rate. How is it possible that they’re letting in kids who aren’t ready to do college level work? What are they selecting for?

As someone who lives in this area... Sorry for saying this.. Ready for it: Nepo babies and affirmative action babies. (Dont @ me about Gratz, lets not pretend its no longer happening) The students that come out of there are just normal. There is nothing special in the UoM sauce. They have more ego as their state school grad who makes the same money as them. Sure there is a floor, they didn't let the alcoholic nepo ba…

How many kids are "Nepo", and aren't they usually donating some kind of money to the University to sweeten the deal?

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#386

Post by OkayPhysicist »

cj wrote: post #368
doctorwho42 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, and how many HNers would cite MIT as one of the best around? Well I learned over a decade ago that they have had Pass/no-credit for the first year implemented for years... So at this point it wouldn't surprise me if you said it's been going on for two decades (at min.) Again, I think people are having the same reaction I had "what, MIT just gets off scotch free for the first year?!". Decade later, watching…

MIT describes the purpose of Pass/Fail during the first semester as: > giving you time to adjust to factors like increased workloads and variations in academic preparation and teaching methods. [0] I can 100% get behind that logic. I can't get behind a college saying they're doing it to "curb a mental health crisis". [0] https://registrar.mit.edu/classes-grades-evaluations/grades/...

> giving you time to adjust to factors like increased workloads and variations in academic preparation and teaching methods.

> curb a mental health crisis

In this context, both have the exact same meaning, of "stop freshmen who are used to overachieving their entire lives from taking a header off the tallest buildings on campus because they're not used to being less than the top 5% at everything"

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#387

Post by JumpCrisscross »

vondur wrote: post #385
t3hTao wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who lives in this area... Sorry for saying this.. Ready for it: Nepo babies and affirmative action babies. (Dont @ me about Gratz, lets not pretend its no longer happening) The students that come out of there are just normal. There is nothing special in the UoM sauce. They have more ego as their state school grad who makes the same money as them. Sure there is a floor, they didn't let the alcoholic nepo ba…

How many kids are "Nepo", and aren't they usually donating some kind of money to the University to sweeten the deal?

> How many kids are "Nepo", and aren't they usually donating some kind of money to the University

Plenty of kids are small-town nepo. Daddy threatens to call his lawyer every time they get a C or get in trouble, and teachers and administrators cave.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#388

Post by smcg »

fucktheMs wrote: post #297

Millennial parents have fucked up multiple generations with their corruption of “gentle parenting” Weird that trying to appease children, giving them no boundaries, and acting like entitled assholes isn’t a good way to raise a human. Not that beating them into submission is good either, but the pendulum swung wildly wrong.

Children of millennials are not college age yet, for the most part. What are you basing this on?

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#389

Post by Der_Einzige »

alephnerd wrote: post #185
ungreased0675 wrote: post #175

The University of Michigan has around a 15% acceptance rate. How is it possible that they’re letting in kids who aren’t ready to do college level work? What are they selecting for?

Do you know what it takes to get admitted into Mich tier programs in 2026? Kids will take multiple APs (taking 10+ isn't unheard of, and in a lot of high schools is expected), do multiple extracurriculars (debate, MUN, DECA sports, academic olympiads, theatre), volunteering (NHS, CSF, etc), and even take college classes in high school. On top of that while tests are optional, most students still submit their SAT and…

Stuff like this is why I'm super duper glad that AI is going to fundementally kill education.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#390

Post by OkayPhysicist »

storus wrote: post #245

Soon the whole US academia reputation will go down the drain and the degrees we all worked so hard for will have no meaning. How to shoot oneself in the foot 101.

They're copying a policy MIT has had for decades. Last I checked, MIT is still in the running for the best regarded university in the world.
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