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London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

btp.police.uk

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Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#381

Post by thorin »

triceratops wrote: post #158
kypro wrote: post #42

For what it's worth, as a Brit, I assure you no one cares about this, and it's likely that most people, if asked, would support it. The UK doesn't value liberty for liberty's sake like the US does. In the US there seems to be this notion that freedom is a universal good, where as in the UK people are quite comfortable with liberties being revoked if it means they feel safer or fewer people are doing things they don't…

> UK political debate today largely just consists of debates about what to ban next...gambling The UK is banning gambling? Really?

They might talk about it, but gambling is a huge industry in the US and many different types of gambling are possible and have been for decades/centuries. It is far less restrictive than many other major countries on gambling I would say e.g. US, China, Australia etc.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#382

Post by foldr »

throw-the-towel wrote: post #154
steve_gh wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that the technology exists, for good or ill, and we cannot put the genie back in the bottle. What we can do, and should do as a society, is decide on how that technology should be used. And that means regulating it, in the same way that we regulate other technologies. For example, we regulate cars. Not just who can use them, but how they have to be constructed too. And we also place limits on how the auth…

> the capabilities and resources that the police have to track us 24/7 are an order of magnitude less than Google or Meta has. This will be a good argument when Google or Meta are able to arrest you.

Google can block access to your Google account, which is enormously disruptive for many people whose online lives are built around it. In some ways it could be more disruptive in the long term than an arrest.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#383

Post by KaiserPro »

windowliker wrote: post #239
WalterBright wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self-checkout at the grocery store is a major vector for shoplifting. That's why the cameras are there. If I was running such a store, I wouldn't want to spend the money on those cameras. But alas, the money is well spent in stopping thieves. I was talking to one of the staff in a grocery store a while ago. He said the corporate auditors came in one day and decided to review the security cams. The result was half the…

But the cameras on the UK self-checkouts only point at your face. How does that stop anything other than casual opportunistic theft of low value items by inculcating some kind of pre-crime guilt feeling? Professional shoplifters (if that isn't an oxymoron) have much more subtle means to carry out their trade, or not as the case may be, depending on their target, usually carried out long before they reach any kind of…

THe one of the face is to ID you, and the one in the barcode area is to work out if you've slapped a sticker for 1kg potatoes on a packet of 1kg of meat.

The face one is to show you that you're on camera, the other one is to detect the fruad. THe cameras in the ceiling aren't high enough resolution to work out if your doing a switcheroo or not.

Basically its a full service package. with the three cameras, it makes it very hard to argue that it wasn't you who did it, that the swap of barcode was a simple error, and that it was just a mistake.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#384

Post by KaiserPro »

vnnDiag wrote: post #250
WalterBright wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self-checkout at the grocery store is a major vector for shoplifting. That's why the cameras are there. If I was running such a store, I wouldn't want to spend the money on those cameras. But alas, the money is well spent in stopping thieves. I was talking to one of the staff in a grocery store a while ago. He said the corporate auditors came in one day and decided to review the security cams. The result was half the…

Retail groups had to retract claims of organized shoplifting: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/08/business/organized-shopli... They just dirty the airwaves with whatever lies they want to justify spying. Drag them to court where they have to be honest and well, their BS is revealed. The low trust side is entirely on the rich owners class side of the divide. Academics and credentialed class take some blame here too; of…

My local coop (I will not share the articles, because doxing) caught someone trying to smuggle >£300 of stuff out of the store. its a tiny store, maybe medium cornershop sized.

at the start of the year, I personally saw 4 shop liftings happen. I know the staff well, they told me after one of the events that at the present rate they are loosing something like £1500 a week.

They now have a security guard, which has lowered the problem, but not stopped it.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#385

Post by foldr »

slopinthebag wrote: post #269
tim333 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They couldn't because the majority in the north wanted to be part on the UK, and democracy.

And a majority of the south (a far greater majority btw) wanted out.

And they have been out for about 100 years. The problematic issue is the status of Northern Ireland, where a slim majority, or clear plurality, still favor remaining in the UK. The idea that everyone would be happy if “the Brits” just “left” Northern Ireland is incredibly naive. The Good Friday agreement already provides for the possibility of referenda on the future status of Northern Ireland. The suggestion that a sudden unilateral decision to cede Northern Ireland to the Republic of Ireland would reduce conflict and sectarian violence (which have already been very successfully reduced by the painstakingly negotiated GFA) is essentially too silly to even comment on.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#386

Post by mananaysiempre »

crimsoneer wrote: post #365
blini-kot wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add: same happened in russia around 2018 on a couple of subway stations in St.-Pete and in moscow at first the result? faster tracking and arrests of people for checks who were deemed too problematic + (i.e. with anti-war protests in 2022) the cameras were used to track or threat tracking almost everyone who protested, and lowering the load on the police by coming to the dwellings afterwards in the next several da…

It's worth pointing out this is specifically not mass tracking. LFR scans faces against an existing database of outstanding wanted suspects. If a match is made, it alerts the officers who are manning the camera there and then. It doesn't store anything that wasn't a match.

To continue GP’s point, in Moscow a “database of outstanding wanted suspects” was enough to get a well-known science writer[1] who publicly expressed her opposition to the war systematically harrassed by the police because she (a then-pregnant woman) matched a database record for, I kid you not, a draft evader. Reportedly some of the officers even admitted the absurdity[2] of the situation but, well, computer says detain.

[1] Asya Kazantseva

[2] Women can be subject to the draft if they’re doctors, radio engineers, or one of a handful of other professions, but thus far it’s very uncommon and either way not applicable in her case.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#387

Post by foldr »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #380
dofm wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two largely different concepts/epochs separated by more than 40 years. The negotiations and partition of Ireland and the establishment of Northern Ireland as a self-governing province (rather than being governed from Britain): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_Ireland And then the Troubles, which were a sectarian conflict between Catholics and Protestants within Northern Ireland itself, that stemme…

This does not answer my original question: why doesn't Britain give the north of Ireland back to the Irish? Why does it cling to it? Didn't Britain cause enough suffering for the Irish already?

Because (depending on the exact poll) either a majority of plurality of the people of Northern Ireland favor remaining in the UK, so it’s not that simple politically. The Good Friday Agreement has provisions for a change in the future status of Northern Ireland based on a referendum, so if/when a majority of its population want to join the Republic of Ireland, this can happen.

Northern Ireland receives heavy subsidies from the UK government. I imagine the UK would be quite happy to cede it to the Republic of Ireland were this politically feasible and not likely to kick off another round of sectarian violence. Ireland may want the six counties in principle, but might be a little unhappy with the bill.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#388

Post by modo_mario »

lexicality wrote: post #374
modo_mario wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen too many that didn't post targeted death threats. Also of people who posted stuff that could be interpreted as vague calls to action when riots were happening. It becomes notewhorty tho that those people of note making a facebook posts got punished harder than the average rioter and reprisal seems to disproportionately target action that establishment might feel threathened by. From my experience it's easy…

On the one hand, I hate the expansion of authoritarian power by the state. On the other, I do think that we should put people in prison for posting on facebook. That way I won't have to keep seeing my crazy uncle at family gatherings!

I can't help but think you'll get a lot more crazy uncles as more people subconsciously (and consciously) feel the social contract has been broken and democratic deficits persist. There will just be more social cooling with all the dog whistles that follow.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#389

Post by euroderf »

juiceland wrote: post #276
hammock wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Supermarkets in the UK point cameras at your face at self-checkout. Just want to add, the overhead cameras at checkout are pointed straight down and can read your phone password as you put it in to pull up Apple Pay.

I wish that Apple would make a way to require both FaceID and a passcode. This seems like an easy option to add.

Something you have + Something you know. SOP.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#390

Post by psd1 »

WalterBright wrote: post #311
america_sux wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all machines lead to increase in the standard of living, and many things that would improve the standard of living are not done. At some point the argument you have made becomes irrelevant and cliched.

> Not all machines lead to increase in the standard of living I did not say "all" machines. If I had meant "all" I would have written "all". That's what the word "all" is for. Consider: "people like ice cream" Riposte: "not everybody likes ice cream" I see this kind of response over and over here. It's cliched and irrelevant.

You both miss the crux of the argument, i think. It would be more precise to say that physical machines raise the standard of living that we measure, but abstract machines reduce that which we don't measure. (Viz, finance.)

Compared to a generation ago, we can stuff more crap in our pockets and wardrobes, but housing is precarious and public institutions are weaker. Good luck supporting a family on a bottom-quartile wage.

GDP, measures of inflation: Goodhart's law.

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