Earlier quoted context omitted.
Oh you fell into the trap... Just don't anthropomorphize Oracle...
I'm not, I'm anthropomorphizing people.
You're carrying the water and making rationalizations for a lawnmower.
Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK
371–380 of 398 posts
Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK
#372Earlier quoted context omitted.
The copyright office does not determine the standards for copyright. They are an advisory and notary organization. Only Congress and the courts do. Copyright exists from the moment a work is created, and does not need to be registered with the copyright office. The law isn't that complicated; if a work was created with a human being with intent, it's probably eligible for copyright protections. As long as you can con…
Do you own the copyright to a painting you commissioned or does the artist? You may have described what you wanted, but the creative work is the output of the artist. Same with an LLM.
This would be a “work-for-hire,” thus not owned by the artist. As a matter of fact, the law does not even consider the artist to be the author of the work. So the point you thought you were making is actually quite backwards.
> A copyrightable work is “made for hire” in two situations:
> When it is created by an employee as part of the employee’s regular duties
> When a certain type of work is created as a result of an express written agreement between the creator and a party specially ordering or commissioning it
> When a work is a made for hire, the hiring or commissioning party is considered the author and the copyright owner.
IANAL but I can imagine the courts bringing this aspect of the law coming into play if Congress continues to be cowardly and fails to pass clear legislation on this topic; courts often analogize to existing scenarios when existing law doesn’t cleanly cover a new one.
Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK
#373Disclaimer: I use AI at work and for some projects at home and find it really useful (as long as you know when and how to use it) With that said... It's funny how we went from "vibe coding" to review burden, sloppy contributions, copyright issues, unclear ownership (as in: who will fix bugs), needlessly verbose code, etc, etc. Several projects have banned AI contributions now and counting. As I said, I use AI to help…
The problem is primarily social. When code is cheap and entry barriers don't exist, how do you filter what is valuable? For private projects, being able to code things quickly is a godsent. Also for professional environments with clear rules and mutual respect, this can be solved. But on the internet, with people you don't know? You must have some hard barriers.
I see 2 possible users for a coding AIs.
1. Professional coders. Us.
2. Non-professional users, people that need software to just get X done.
I am focusing on non-professionals.
If you look at phones you find apps to book flight, book hotels, exercise, meditate and whatever. Almost anything without a social aspect can be redone with AI.
Why redo with AI? Because it's personal.
I don't need 55 filters when renting an apartment on a business trips: i always want a terrace and good internet, show me price ranges, something close to where i will go to work. And after 10 times i use the app with AI, it should start to know what i like, and after 100 it should better do it.
I want my flights never to arrive in the evening because if it delays i don't want to be stuck in the airport.
I don't really exercise, but i really want to so my app does does need to have 80 exercises, it needs to have 2 basic ones and to use each dark pattern to make me do it.
I love movies, so i want to know when it's coming out.
Lots of this can be done with a simple chatbot, that goes out and find planes or whatever. Yes that is going to be ALSO how we use AI.
The distance between app and chatbot is somewhat of a grey area.
An app is a specific personal tool. An app has an interface, that makes it more reliable, it persists things i like, history and personalizations. An app "I built with AI" likely has some IKEA effect. And much more.
Overall, it's simpler, i know where buttons are because i told AI where to put it and they are big buttons, and if tomorrow i want my personal rent-a-car app to never ever propose company X that just gave me a shitty car, it will do it.
If i want to see the address in can ask AI, but i can also just open the app, no AI, no internet, etc.
I actually built some of those apps, for fun. We are not fully there for a non coder, but not too far.
In terms of security and code, etc, run them in a sandbox, do not put personal data, send to website for actual purchases/actions, zero inbound network connections ....
I am hand-waving, but i don't feel like i am bullshitting if say that the right security tradeoff will be found, no?
In any case I tried to give you an example of how coding AI can mean a sort of paradigm shift for software. I do not mean it in a prescriptive sense, "this is exactly what the future will look like", it's just feel ready to be surprised by how this will develop.
Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK
#374Reviewer burden is the right diagnosis and the rule doesn't really address it.
Oracle's own FAQ concedes that reliably telling AI content from human content is impossible. So reducing volume depends on people honestly checking the box or more likely not submitting or reviewers spotting AI tells. Some of their example tells don't seem AI-specific, just bad code smells that reviewers probably rejected for prior to gen AI.
I'm reminded of academic peer review, which has run into a similar volume problem. Since there's more writing involved, there's also a lot of slop submitted and the reviews themselves can degenerate to slop, too. It's an unsolved problem. The things that seem to be making a difference are process changes like caps on submissions per author, immediate rejection prior to review, making authors review in return, etc.
Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK
#375Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wait, Oracle sales reps give decision-makers personal kickbacks for buying Oracle?? Stay classy Oracle. Such a banal depth of evil. Why hasn't this been outlawed? I guess companies that knowingly employ such managers deserve to lose whatever Oracle's legal team extracts out of them.
They've been charged multiple times for bribing foreign government officials. https://www.sec.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022-173 This is why corporate procurement in a large enterprise is so bureaucratic. If you have 20 layers of approval that's 20 people that need cocaine and prostitutes yet could blow the whistle.
One of the worst side-effects of corruption and cronyism isn't even the corruption part, it's the insane administrative cost it inevitably breeds in process in order to try to fix.
This is largely why the US government is so inefficient. Our government agencies have been trained to outsource absolutely everything. A static site? No, you couldn't possibly hire one or two engineers to do that, you need a multi-million dollar contract! Well, when you do that, the corruption risk is through the roof. Now we mitigate with anti-corruption, anti-fraud checks out the fucking wazoo. That's expensive. And we're putting that expense ON TOP of the exorbitant contract fees.
Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK
#376Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a meeting, a sales pitch, that takes place on a golf course. No different than over a meal, or at a sporting event. A kickback, by definition, only happens after the deal is closed, the recipient of the funds "kicks back" some of the revenue (or his commission) to the decision maker. If hasn't progressed beyond "the intention that they will do business with you" then it can't be a kickback.
What happens here is that the buyer "kicks back" a fat contract to their sales buddy who took them to that great golf resort. Or, if the terminology is wrong, you can just say that the sales agent bribed the buyer with a golf trip in order to get the contract on better terms, to the detriment of they buyer's company. Either way, golf games paid for by people trying to sell something are obviously morally and ethicall…
What happens when two salesmen both take the guy out for golf? Someone's getting stiffed, right?
And it happens with government employees all the time, just a bit differently. The lobbyist is a member at Shinnecock Hills or some other private, prestigious golf course that costs $100,000+ to join. Then he invites the senator out, the "guest fee" is a nominal amount like $120, which he happily pays to play a round on a US Open quality course. Of course the senator charges his transportation and hotel to his office, paid out of campaign funds or something. Shit like this happens every single day, stop pretending to be so shocked or morally righteous.
Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK
#377Earlier quoted context omitted.
What I don't understand is why anyone with half a brain would even venture to touch Oracle with a ten foot pole given that they've had this reputation for at least the last 25 years. Why, people?
Because my boss like golf courses and even more when oracle sales rep pays.
Mine liked steak dinners.
Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK
#378Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ahhaha. JBoss, the glorified web-app server that booted for tens of minutes. It was the peak of Java-based over-engineering.
And it's not even an Oracle product. If you want that from them you need WebLogic. To be fair, recent versions of JBoss/Wildfly removed a lot of the bloat and boot within seconds. Startup time is mostly due to application frameworks nowadays.
This conversation just dug some old nightmares out.
In a past life, I used to be almost ecstatic when a client would choose Tomcat over WebLogic or WebSphere, or whatever abomination of an app server they standardized on.
Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK
#379Earlier quoted context omitted.
What happens here is that the buyer "kicks back" a fat contract to their sales buddy who took them to that great golf resort. Or, if the terminology is wrong, you can just say that the sales agent bribed the buyer with a golf trip in order to get the contract on better terms, to the detriment of they buyer's company. Either way, golf games paid for by people trying to sell something are obviously morally and ethicall…
What happens when two salesmen both take the guy out for golf? Someone's getting stiffed, right? And it happens with government employees all the time, just a bit differently. The lobbyist is a member at Shinnecock Hills or some other private, prestigious golf course that costs $100,000+ to join. Then he invites the senator out, the "guest fee" is a nominal amount like $120, which he happily pays to play a round on a…
Yes, corruption happens every day. So do rape and murder and theft, and so many other problems. Why should I be so accepting of any of them?
Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK
#380Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The second biggest use is Apache Spark/Kafka, but with LLMs now, you can pretty much re implement all of that functionality in pure C. Spark is written in Scala, precisely because distributed systems are best modelled as a set of pure functions with minimal references to state. This is also why part of the reason why it's ascending successor, Polars Cloud, is written in a functional language, Rust, rather than C. An…
The post is about the OpenJDK, not Java the language per se. Which applies to Scala, Kotlin, JPython, and others.
This particular comment was about "Oracle Java".