Capitalism works with debt for growth. Strange HN doesn't understand this
Why Wall Street is ignoring big tech's debt [video]
31–40 of 203 posts
Re: Why Wall Street is ignoring big tech's debt [video]
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
But the question is how much are people willing to pay for AI. I use AI every day at work, but I only pay $20. That's the most I will ever want to pay. And, so far, it gives me everything I need. If OpenAI or Anthropic suddenly said "Sorry, the game is up. You'll have to pay $100/month now", I would 100% look into cheaper Chinese solutions. I suspect the AI subscription (or API) economy is whale economy. You have a s…
I spent $18k in credits last month, I have 3x 20x Anthropic accounts (for Fable to bypass limits) which runs me another $600ish p/m and then a chatgpt pro account another $200 p/m. The value I got out of it is easily 1-200x what I paid.
What are you using it for? I have to assume some kind of agentic workload. Also curious to know when (if ever) you would pivot to Chinese providers to save $$$
Re: Why Wall Street is ignoring big tech's debt [video]
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
But the question is how much are people willing to pay for AI. I use AI every day at work, but I only pay $20. That's the most I will ever want to pay. And, so far, it gives me everything I need. If OpenAI or Anthropic suddenly said "Sorry, the game is up. You'll have to pay $100/month now", I would 100% look into cheaper Chinese solutions. I suspect the AI subscription (or API) economy is whale economy. You have a s…
You can now, as of this week, run locally models with the same performance of a SOTA model of March this year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49214008 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49229621 The FAFO day of Anthropic and OpenAI arrived.
You will spend thousands of dollars on hardware to run those at lower quality (quantized) than the benchmarks where they match March SOTA performance.
Source: I have the hardware to run those locally. I would never recommend it to anyone trying to save money. It’s so much cheaper to pay even Anthropic or OpenAI.
Re: Why Wall Street is ignoring big tech's debt [video]
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
But the question is how much are people willing to pay for AI. I use AI every day at work, but I only pay $20. That's the most I will ever want to pay. And, so far, it gives me everything I need. If OpenAI or Anthropic suddenly said "Sorry, the game is up. You'll have to pay $100/month now", I would 100% look into cheaper Chinese solutions. I suspect the AI subscription (or API) economy is whale economy. You have a s…
Rofl, I already went for cheaper Chinese solutions. I can achieve more than I could when I was giving OpenAI 20 bucks a month, and for a fraction of the price. I have no idea why people still use ChatGPT or Claude.
Me too. Sinophobia may be the culprit, too many years watching fox or cnn is my guess?
I love chinese phones, cars, cities, people, and now AI models. There is a beautiful world out there to admire if people is willing to open their eyes.
Re: Why Wall Street is ignoring big tech's debt [video]
#35I don't know a single white collar worker who isn't using AI for their job. Not like forced, but like "Oh damn, this bot thing can do a lot of tedious leg work for me". To think that people won't pay $60-$80/mo to continue using it is wild to me. In a white collar environment it pays for itself in a few hours of use. If you focus on how much value AI brings to people (mostly in time saved), the bubble hardly looks bu…
After using it a bit I’m convinced it’s not, as a whole, a bubble. Bubbles exist around it. Data center construction may end up overbuilding, much like the dark fiber thing during dot.com, since better chips and models will shrink power and space requirements over time. But the core tech is the most powerful new thing I have seen since discovering the Internet, at least. Maybe more.
A bubble doesn’t mean a technology is useless. It just means it’s overvalued
In the last 30 years, we’ve had multiple bubbles in the tech industry. Every one of them was backed by real stuff that we still use today. They were still bubbles and a ton of people were hurt when they popped.
Re: Why Wall Street is ignoring big tech's debt [video]
#36I don't know a single white collar worker who isn't using AI for their job. Not like forced, but like "Oh damn, this bot thing can do a lot of tedious leg work for me". To think that people won't pay $60-$80/mo to continue using it is wild to me. In a white collar environment it pays for itself in a few hours of use. If you focus on how much value AI brings to people (mostly in time saved), the bubble hardly looks bu…
But the question is how much are people willing to pay for AI. I use AI every day at work, but I only pay $20. That's the most I will ever want to pay. And, so far, it gives me everything I need. If OpenAI or Anthropic suddenly said "Sorry, the game is up. You'll have to pay $100/month now", I would 100% look into cheaper Chinese solutions. I suspect the AI subscription (or API) economy is whale economy. You have a s…
> Even adding something like $20 - $100 subscriptions to every user is a serious enough financial obligation that it needs to go through budget planning / boards
I doubt that. In my tiny town in India, office workers use the 1800 INR (20$) plans. 1800 INR/month is like... 4% of the salary these guys get. And since this is mostly MS-office and windows explorer and chrome based stuff in very small, non-tech companies, it pays for itself in literally a day. If they _could_ pay less they would. After all they pirate MS office. But the cheap chinese plans dont have any distribution, whereas OpenAI seems to have effectively marketed to them via IPL ads and such. No one there even knows about deepseek. It also doesn't help deepseek and such are focused on the coding market. No multimodal, office plugins, etc.
For personal stuff, people there use Meta AI - mostly because it is directly available in whatsapp and these days they are pushing it by adding a dedicated button for it right on the home page. Regardless, they still call it "chatgpt". OpenAI brand is unmatched.
Re: Why Wall Street is ignoring big tech's debt [video]
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
But the question is how much are people willing to pay for AI. I use AI every day at work, but I only pay $20. That's the most I will ever want to pay. And, so far, it gives me everything I need. If OpenAI or Anthropic suddenly said "Sorry, the game is up. You'll have to pay $100/month now", I would 100% look into cheaper Chinese solutions. I suspect the AI subscription (or API) economy is whale economy. You have a s…
I spent $18k in credits last month, I have 3x 20x Anthropic accounts (for Fable to bypass limits) which runs me another $600ish p/m and then a chatgpt pro account another $200 p/m. The value I got out of it is easily 1-200x what I paid.
Examples like this come up as sub comments very often, but they don’t address the point. Most people will not go beyond $20, forget a 18k.
Re: Why Wall Street is ignoring big tech's debt [video]
#38I don't know a single white collar worker who isn't using AI for their job. Not like forced, but like "Oh damn, this bot thing can do a lot of tedious leg work for me". To think that people won't pay $60-$80/mo to continue using it is wild to me. In a white collar environment it pays for itself in a few hours of use. If you focus on how much value AI brings to people (mostly in time saved), the bubble hardly looks bu…
$80 per month in a 5,000 people Enterprise is 400k per month which translates to ~5m per year. That is easily in the 8-16% of their total IT budget. I don’t know you, but companies don’t like to increase recurring cost. Is AI good? Yes. Is it clear how it generates enough ROI to justify a material IT cost increase? No. This is the problem now, not how much white collar workers use AI, but what is the productivity nar…
> when Salesforce invented the CRM for example
Huh? If that was not a joke, here is the history of CRM:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customer_relationship_manageme...
Re: Why Wall Street is ignoring big tech's debt [video]
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
But the question is how much are people willing to pay for AI. I use AI every day at work, but I only pay $20. That's the most I will ever want to pay. And, so far, it gives me everything I need. If OpenAI or Anthropic suddenly said "Sorry, the game is up. You'll have to pay $100/month now", I would 100% look into cheaper Chinese solutions. I suspect the AI subscription (or API) economy is whale economy. You have a s…
I spent $18k in credits last month, I have 3x 20x Anthropic accounts (for Fable to bypass limits) which runs me another $600ish p/m and then a chatgpt pro account another $200 p/m. The value I got out of it is easily 1-200x what I paid.
You make ~2 million dollars a month?
Re: Why Wall Street is ignoring big tech's debt [video]
#40I don't know a single white collar worker who isn't using AI for their job. Not like forced, but like "Oh damn, this bot thing can do a lot of tedious leg work for me". To think that people won't pay $60-$80/mo to continue using it is wild to me. In a white collar environment it pays for itself in a few hours of use. If you focus on how much value AI brings to people (mostly in time saved), the bubble hardly looks bu…
But the question is how much are people willing to pay for AI. I use AI every day at work, but I only pay $20. That's the most I will ever want to pay. And, so far, it gives me everything I need. If OpenAI or Anthropic suddenly said "Sorry, the game is up. You'll have to pay $100/month now", I would 100% look into cheaper Chinese solutions. I suspect the AI subscription (or API) economy is whale economy. You have a s…
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