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London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

btp.police.uk

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Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#241

Post by artisinal »

WalterBright wrote: post #240
artisinal wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The savings that a store has from self checkouts far outweigh the shoplifting it attracts. I don’t see what the cameras add. Do stores review camera footage at the end of the day and then hunt down the offenders?

There's usually one person in charge of an array of self-checkouts, and the self-checkouts flag suspicious activity. > I don’t see what the cameras add. Again, stores would not spend money on self-checkouts and cameras if they didn't pay off.

So all the customer has to do is shoplift the item before the self checkout.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#242

Post by WalterBright »

windowliker wrote: post #239
WalterBright wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self-checkout at the grocery store is a major vector for shoplifting. That's why the cameras are there. If I was running such a store, I wouldn't want to spend the money on those cameras. But alas, the money is well spent in stopping thieves. I was talking to one of the staff in a grocery store a while ago. He said the corporate auditors came in one day and decided to review the security cams. The result was half the…

But the cameras on the UK self-checkouts only point at your face. How does that stop anything other than casual opportunistic theft of low value items by inculcating some kind of pre-crime guilt feeling? Professional shoplifters (if that isn't an oxymoron) have much more subtle means to carry out their trade, or not as the case may be, depending on their target, usually carried out long before they reach any kind of…

The cameras here are in the ceiling, and they watch to see if you are scanning the merchandise before putting it in the bag. I presume they are AI-trained to catch this.

I know this because I was idly thinking about something else and put an item in my bag without scanning it.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#243

Post by dofm »

constantius wrote: post #153
dofm wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think your take might be based on myth and dramatisation too, You are arguing that terrorist attacks on public transport in the UK are mythical or dramatised? > I invite you to check how the English government is reacting to independentist movements in Scotland and Ireland post-Brexit if you think they're happy to let people be. This is just a very weird sentence to read; surprised it wasn't weird to write.

> You are arguing that terrorist attacks on public transport in the UK are mythical or dramatised? What kind of question is that? Did I ask you if you're calling cameras in the UK mythical? Same as what you said about London, I'm arguing you're dramatising the dire threat of terrorism on the good people sitting in the tube. In a thread where we're discussing the systematically verified risks of a slippery slope of su…

> I'm arguing you're dramatising the dire threat of terrorism on the good people sitting in the tube.

The threat has indeed been dire, and quite recently; the last jihadist bombing on the tube was less than ten years ago.

> Sorry for the tone,

I think you are not.

> your statement about the Irish being to blame for the Troubles

I did not say this.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#244

Post by netsharc »

gambiting wrote: post #185
_fw wrote: post #53

It’s a moot point. I’m saddened at the invasion of privacy and the intrusion on an individual’s civil liberties, but anonymous travel on the London Underground died when they made bank cards and contactless the primary way to get through the barriers. I’m not saying that “this doesn’t matter because it’s slightly worse than before”. I’m saying the frog has been boiling for a long time. I don’t want people being surpr…

And the thing that absolutely fucks me off about all of this, is that we don't even get a lawful society in exchange for all of this. On one hand, there's no privacy anywhere. On the other - have your car stolen or a bike? House broken into? Phone snatched out of your hands? Good luck getting anyone to care about this in the slightest. You'd think with all the surveillance tech we'd be living in a nightmare panoptico…

You can probably thank Thatcher and the cabal of idiots dumber than lettuce that is the Tory party. Squeeze the poor, squeeze the state budget that even the police force is under-resourced, give the money to their buddies.

E.g. with North Sea oil: https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/214768/economics/norway-u...

Norway is rich and socialist. I was there a while ago and their billboards had ads from their national refugee council asking for donations... on the Friday evening there was a march for Palestine in downtown Oslo. Imagine how well that would go down in the UK "society".

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#245

Post by xp84 »

windowliker wrote: post #239
WalterBright wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self-checkout at the grocery store is a major vector for shoplifting. That's why the cameras are there. If I was running such a store, I wouldn't want to spend the money on those cameras. But alas, the money is well spent in stopping thieves. I was talking to one of the staff in a grocery store a while ago. He said the corporate auditors came in one day and decided to review the security cams. The result was half the…

But the cameras on the UK self-checkouts only point at your face. How does that stop anything other than casual opportunistic theft of low value items by inculcating some kind of pre-crime guilt feeling? Professional shoplifters (if that isn't an oxymoron) have much more subtle means to carry out their trade, or not as the case may be, depending on their target, usually carried out long before they reach any kind of…

There are almost certainly more cameras to catch the stealing on tape too. But when the camera or even a person sees you swipe something, they are gonna want to have a pic of your face to be able to know who you are, especially so they can recognize repeat offenders. Next time you show up, they might be looking for their most notorious thieves so they can call police, point to you and hand them a video of the last time you stole.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#247

Post by LeoPanthera »

Flere-Imsaho wrote: post #217
gambiting wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the thing that absolutely fucks me off about all of this, is that we don't even get a lawful society in exchange for all of this. On one hand, there's no privacy anywhere. On the other - have your car stolen or a bike? House broken into? Phone snatched out of your hands? Good luck getting anyone to care about this in the slightest. You'd think with all the surveillance tech we'd be living in a nightmare panoptico…

I think it's even worse than that. If at some remote possibility that a criminal does get caught and charged with a crime, the prisons are full (37% foreign criminals [0]) so they won't do any prison time, and therefore no justice is served. In fact our prisons are so full, violent criminals are being let out after serving only their half term [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_prison_populati... […

> 37% foreign criminals

Why is this statistic relevant?

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#248

Post by WalterBright »

snypher wrote: post #231
WalterBright wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self-checkout at the grocery store is a major vector for shoplifting. That's why the cameras are there. If I was running such a store, I wouldn't want to spend the money on those cameras. But alas, the money is well spent in stopping thieves. I was talking to one of the staff in a grocery store a while ago. He said the corporate auditors came in one day and decided to review the security cams. The result was half the…

I highly doubt that story as camera footage is audited remotely (the store staff know nothing about it), and half the staff is way too high (to not be detected on the ground).

I wouldn't be surprised at half. If a worker sees others at the store stealing without consequence, they may be tempted to steal as well.

BTW, the cash register was invented because of rampant theft by the cashiers.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#250

Post by vnnDiag »

WalterBright wrote: post #221
windowliker wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oyster is still anonymous, in the sense that no details are required to buy a card, and it can be topped up using cash. The cards can be returned or disposed of as necessary. But as you say, it knows your movements at least in so far as your entry and exit point in the system, with a timestamp, though you can use a separate card for each if you don't mind paying the full fare that gets charged when a journey is 'inco…

Self-checkout at the grocery store is a major vector for shoplifting. That's why the cameras are there. If I was running such a store, I wouldn't want to spend the money on those cameras. But alas, the money is well spent in stopping thieves. I was talking to one of the staff in a grocery store a while ago. He said the corporate auditors came in one day and decided to review the security cams. The result was half the…

Retail groups had to retract claims of organized shoplifting:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/08/business/organized-shopli...

They just dirty the airwaves with whatever lies they want to justify spying. Drag them to court where they have to be honest and well, their BS is revealed.

The low trust side is entirely on the rich owners class side of the divide.

Academics and credentialed class take some blame here too; of course no one is going to be capable of a task or job without their coursework. Nevermind expertise in $thing been around since before their class

Capitalism has turned everyone into a fucking Udemy sales pitch.

Only 30% of people have seen a mental health professional since 2020. Everyone else does what we used to do; rather than pay a modern day preacher for faith healing[1] we have friends.

[1] lots of people truly need intervention but America uses therapy to cope with basic shit https://www.theatlantic.com/podcasts/archive/2024/02/how-we-...

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