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London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

btp.police.uk

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Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#201

Post by schaefer »

mosura wrote: post #198
tpholland wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will be fine. Most Brits are comfortable with the poor quality of Orwell commentary from over the pond. American Orwell fans mostly don't even read his key novels like Keep the Aspadistra Flying, just his juvenile science fiction stuff.

The odd thing is Americans seem to take Aldous Huxley enormously more seriously than the Brits do, and they may be right in doing so.

I'm going to pretend you're talking about The Doors of Perception. Even though you are obviously talking about Brave New World.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#202

Post by gyanchawdhary »

retube wrote: post #162

Lots of moaning about this in the comments but no real explanation as to what the objection is beyond vague references to "privacy". What is the actual risk to me as an innocent person going about their daily business? If it helps identify perpetrators of crime what's the issue? Comments here seem like an ideological kneejerk response.

The “main character” syndrome is strong here .. thing is, most people wouldn’t even be the main character in a movie about their own lives .. also if this helps catch criminals/terrorists/thieves .. what’s the actual harm to an innocent passenger ..

ps: great initiative by LU

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#203

Post by Normal_gaussian »

windowliker wrote: post #197
rozab wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point with those supermarket cameras is to influence behaviour, not to surveil, I doubt they are even recording. When I was a kid (maybe in a worse area than you) there were CRT TVs by entrances of supermarkets showing a live feed of you walking in. People behave differently when they feel they are being watched, it's why they have creepy CCTV posters with big eyes on them. Probably the same reason for ev…

Yes, this has been under consideration when thinking just how much raw footage would have to be stored for 4 or more self-checkout cameras for every shop. Probably multiple terabytes per day, per chain, just for London. There is also the classic 'plastic camera with blinking LED' CCTV installation, intended to deter theft in a more lo-fi manner. As an aside, the artist John Baldessari made an installation in the Tate…

About 8 or 9 years ago I saw a self checkout pos provider demo a camera/screen system that would do basic images processing constantly to try and take pictures when people are clearly visible. A couple of low res, low colour palette, cropped images per user are much much easier to store. This was at a security conference.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#204

Post by basisword »

To be honest I don't see the point. Anyone committing a crime goes around in a balaclava these days so facial recognition won't be much use. They'd have much more success just banning face coverings and there would be plenty of support for it.

The problems we have are much deeper though. Petty crime is out of control and it's impacting society in obvious ways. Just go to a shop to see the measures they have to take to try to reduce theft. We don't have enough police due to a decade or two of underfunding. And even if we did we don't have enough prison space to even let harder criminals finish out their sentences - so what's the point in arresting petty criminals?

Saying that London is still one of the safest major cities in the world. Safer than any major US city. I've been living here a long time and the worst I've seen is a few phone thefts. I can walk pretty much anywhere safely at any time of the day or night. Don't let the fear mongering online fool you.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#205

Post by asdff »

dijksterhuis wrote: post #180
asdff wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You assume it will be used in good faith which is charitable. It doesn't even need to take an authoritarian regime to pervert this technology. Abusive police officers in the US for example use Flock to stalk ex girlfriends.

> Abusive police officers in the US for example use Flock to stalk ex girlfriends. the UK is not the US ;)

Yes I'm sure their police force is entirely free of any psychological problems and in no way selects for people who might be incline to abuse their position of authority.

Oh wait, this came out just yesterday:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/08/10/detective-respon...

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#206

Post by basisword »

kypro wrote: post #42

For what it's worth, as a Brit, I assure you no one cares about this, and it's likely that most people, if asked, would support it. The UK doesn't value liberty for liberty's sake like the US does. In the US there seems to be this notion that freedom is a universal good, where as in the UK people are quite comfortable with liberties being revoked if it means they feel safer or fewer people are doing things they don't…

The US pays lip service to some major freedoms but I think the reality is far from that. US police crack down violently on protests and have for a long time. Their police are far more violent and vindictive in general. Several states have porn bans. Fireworks are restricted heavily in many places. You can buy a house and end up with a random group of locals controlling what you can and can't do with it. You're looking at it through rose tinted glasses.

On top of that, a lot of the larger restrictions we have are borne out of the USA. The war on drugs. The consequences, and subsequent security restrictions we have, thanks to their 'war on terror'.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#207

Post by eaenki »

tpholland wrote: post #181
hn_submit wrote: post #147

Britain is the original Orwellian society!! They even practice DoubleSpeak and DoubleThink in Blighty, especially in government and parliamentary circles.

It will be fine. Most Brits are comfortable with the poor quality of Orwell commentary from over the pond. American Orwell fans mostly don't even read his key novels like Keep the Aspadistra Flying, just his juvenile science fiction stuff.

Demoting Orwell's masterpieces (1984 and Animal Farm) to "juvenile science fiction stuff" while holding up Keep the Aspidistra Flying—a mid-tier social realism novel about a middle-class poet struggling with commercialism—is top-tier British condescension (extra points for misspelling Aspidistra while doing so).

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#208

Post by windowliker »

Normal_gaussian wrote: post #203
windowliker wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this has been under consideration when thinking just how much raw footage would have to be stored for 4 or more self-checkout cameras for every shop. Probably multiple terabytes per day, per chain, just for London. There is also the classic 'plastic camera with blinking LED' CCTV installation, intended to deter theft in a more lo-fi manner. As an aside, the artist John Baldessari made an installation in the Tate…

About 8 or 9 years ago I saw a self checkout pos provider demo a camera/screen system that would do basic images processing constantly to try and take pictures when people are clearly visible. A couple of low res, low colour palette, cropped images per user are much much easier to store. This was at a security conference.

Fair enough, sounds like a reasonable compromise, but I still question the entire premise of having these cameras in the first place, especially since they do not film the area where items are being handled. Tallying a loss of stock to a specific person would seem to be really quite difficult to do with only a set of photographs of the faces of everyone who utilised the self-checkouts within a certain period.

Re: London Underground begins scanning passengers' faces

#209

Post by Gander5739 »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #190
dofm wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to tell you I am not that bothered. Twice I nearly lost my father to terrorism in London. (Sliding Doors commuter moments both times — by sheer chance not being in the very usual place at the very usual time). I remain pretty relaxed about the idea that people who wish to bomb trains and tubes and buses can't get across London without the awareness that they could be tracked. You cannot live your life paranoid…

Where are you getting the perception that Americans generally fear London? I don't know a single American that has ever expressed any sentiment that London is unsafe. I know a few that have some stupid notions about immigrants in the UK, but that isn't exclusive to people on this side of the pond. Genuinely, though. Americans just don't worry about safety in London outside of scams and petty crime inherent to any big…

I wouldn't say it's a general belief, but it is a point that certain groups like to push. See e.g. https://www.economist.com/leaders/2026/01/28/haters-on-the-r... (paywalled, but even the first paragraph is enough).
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