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Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

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Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#141

Post by sergers »

jmacd wrote: post #97
ventana wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a coffee drinker, I would not agree with the "worth it" part, but I was indeed surprised to learn some time ago that a can of Diet coke contains 46 mg of caffeine, which is basically a half of espresso shot. We don't let kids drink coffee, but we let them drink coke, which just does not make any sense. Out of these two, I would assume espresso brings much less harm! Recently, I started using an app to track my…

I’m curious where you are located? I’m in Canada and I don’t think I know anyone who would let a child drink a coke. I have a 14 year old and it still isn’t something we’d offer.

Really? Like where in Canada.

You are rarity/have sheltered kid well. ( Have met some families where kids never had fast food, sweets, like rod and todd Flanders in the Simpsons lol)

I'm on West coast, kids in elementary school, and half the bday parties in the lower grades families serving mini cans of coke for the kids (and juice with just as much sugar, pick your poison).

Goto any fast food joint/mcd and see 5yr olds with a soda.

I have traveled throughout Canada to east coast and kids love soda pop/coke too.

Not all kids like soda, many do. Not all parents allow their kids to regularly have side, but may give as a special treat.

More and more kids are drinking coffee due to Starbucks type drinks, but that's mostly just sugar.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#142

Post by bardsore »

alfiedotwtf wrote: post #85
DANmode wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5 is almost universally too much. 4 is almost universally too much.. 3 is the most I’ve ever recommended. More than enough.

5 as in milligrams?! I’ve found 10mg is sometimes just enough, but 20-30mg is where I actually feel a noticeable difference

That is an extreme amount

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#143

Post by huehehue »

hackable_sand wrote: post #119
fragmede wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, the 8sleep is pretty nice because it heats and cools you so you get better sleep, and you can still put your phone away if you have one.

Better sleep than what? Humans have been sleeping for at least 400 years

I get what you're saying, but let's not pretend the modern world isn't meaningfully different. Artificial light is a big factor, yes. So are odd and constantly changing work hours from a world that now operates 24/7. So is the common expectation of monophasic sleep in general. So is travel and jet lag that we now have to endure, and dietary changes, and stimulants especially for folks who just don't even have 8 uninterrupted hours available for sleep. So are dramatic global temperature changes. The list goes on, and there is more data in this paper https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11152632/

I can hardly blame anyone for wanting to "hack" or "optimize" their sleep. It seems more necessary now than it has ever been.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#144

Post by BuildTheRobots »

mettamage wrote: post #78
siren2026 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried all those things, none worked. You are assuming every brain is wired like yours. It has been proven multiple times that we all have different hormonal levels during the day based on the light patterns. Some people only produce melatonin several hours after it's getting dark. Your assumption of a world where we all behave the same regarding sleep is one of the reason why the US became such a bad 6AM hustle cul…

What worked for me is mirtazapine at 7.5 mg (higher will make it a stimulant anyway). The irony is my doctor is really sceptical. A friend prescribed it to me, who is also a doctor. And he was a bit pissed at my doctor. Quite literally: "your doctor can fucking call me if she questions my methods and I will overflow her with research on this" type of vibe. He did quite some research into it. And I trust him. Of cours…

Interesting you're the first person to mention this.

I had chronic insomnia for >25 years (my entire life) making it extremely difficult to hold down a job or generally interact with society. I've since been on Mirtazipine for about 15 years and the difference is unbelievable.

In the UK it's only dispensed in 15, 30 or 45mg. I was started on 15mg but that left me extremely groggy for most of the next day. My doctor convinced me to move up to 30mg and I'm able to mostly sleep and actually function the next day.

It's not all roses and there's a handful of side effects. Personally I had about 6 months of metallic taste in my mouth and it absolutely buggered my sex drive. A few friends jokingly call it "mirfatapine" as it can make them binge-eat and put on weight, but personally I find the good absolutely outweighs the bad and it's literally life changing.

I know if I forget to take it, because I suddenly realise it's 4am and I'm still wide awake and gibbering. If I'm working festivals then I can _choose_ not to take it and go back to my old routine working 52-hour shifts before falling asleep.

Whilst I'm not overly thrilled at taking psychoactive drugs nightly, it's been the only thing I've ever found (and I spent a lot of my childhood trying anything and everything the doctors recommended and self-medicating in various forms) that actually makes it possible to sleep nightly, and therefore function long term when I'm forced to wake up for work. If you're desperate and out of options it's absolutely worth trying, but do be aware it takes months to become effective.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#145

Post by gojomo »

HexPhantom wrote: post #35
mutagen wrote: post #4

This thesis appears to be related or the underlying research: https://d.lib.msu.edu/etd/51312 Indicates 2mg and 5mg were given along with the placebo. While these are common dosages available in the US, these are higher dosages than recommended by at least some sleep experts. The thesis doesn't seem to differentiate between the dosages when evaluating cognitive processes. Now I want to evaluate my sleep stack against…

Seriously, separating the 2mg and 5mg groups would make this a lot more informative

And having a 0.3mg (300mcg) group - the dose many meticulous online self-experimenters have found sufficient, a mere 15% of their lowest-tested 2mg.

Would a headline "morning coffee found to cause stomach problems and anxiety" be reasonable, if the smallest dose tested was 7 cups – and that dosage fact was omitted from the attached abstract/story?

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#146

Post by yalok »

mettamage wrote: post #80
koliber wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read a while back that our brains produce roughly 0.3 mg of melatonin when signaling us to go to sleep. When I occasionally do use melatonin I split a 1mg pill into half or thirds. I find that it works well enough to help me fall asleep. Wondering how the study would look if hwy used 1/2 mg doses.

Go to the Netherlands, to the Kruidvat (or Etos or something similar) and just buy a lifetime worth of supply of Melatonin. It's 0.1 mg. I'm Dutch and live here. But my wife is American. If I ever happen to live in the US (chances are there in my lifetime). I'm going to employ this strategy. I don't trust the US with this and the Netherlands has proven itself to me in this sense. There are probably many more European…

One can get kids doses that are 0.5 or 0.25mg. Eg see this 0.25 product on Amazon - https://a.co/d/0j74eWFP

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#147

Post by sergers »

mettamage wrote: post #78
siren2026 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried all those things, none worked. You are assuming every brain is wired like yours. It has been proven multiple times that we all have different hormonal levels during the day based on the light patterns. Some people only produce melatonin several hours after it's getting dark. Your assumption of a world where we all behave the same regarding sleep is one of the reason why the US became such a bad 6AM hustle cul…

What worked for me is mirtazapine at 7.5 mg (higher will make it a stimulant anyway). The irony is my doctor is really sceptical. A friend prescribed it to me, who is also a doctor. And he was a bit pissed at my doctor. Quite literally: "your doctor can fucking call me if she questions my methods and I will overflow her with research on this" type of vibe. He did quite some research into it. And I trust him. Of cours…

I take 5 to 10 mg a night.

I have taken 20mg, but if I don't end up sleeping made me feel really off/groggy. But that I think more so cause I didn't sleep.

I can take 10mg, get waken up in a couple hours by the kids or pets and feel fully awake and well rested.

Re: Melatonin impairs morning cognition in healthy young adults (2023)

#150

Post by satvikpendem »

bookofjoe wrote: post #139
budsniffer952 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love that people have developed a "sleep stack" without ever even knowing if what they take is improving the effects of sleep.

"sleep stack" gets my vote for winner of the 2026 "How You Know You're On HN" award

It's common in the biohacking community especially on X. I've heard about it there much earlier and more frequently than I ever did here.
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