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U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

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Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#101

Post by raddan »

estearum wrote: post #91
raddan wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure where you get the idea that all universities are competitive because that is simply untrue. Many public universities are required by state legislatures to broadly admit students from their own state. California is a good example. You can see incoming class statistics here: https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/entering-class-... Competitive universities are competitive. Sometimes that competiton i…

The ones that aren't competitive don't have the ultra-competitive dynamics described above. Not sure what your point is. That still doesn't mean they're not "for the elites." Universities are for people striving for upward mobility, i.e. to get into or maintain membership in the elite tiers of society. Also there is (obviously) significant variation in the upper end of the elite and the lower end.

More than a third of the US population has a college degree. [1] When you consider the fact that 20% of the US population are children [2] that means that roughly half of the eligible US population has a college degree. If “half” is elite, then I’m not sure what “elite” means, because it’s not very exclusive.

> Not sure what your point is.

Well, you said

> All universities are for the elites.

And then I countered that, actually, many are not selective. I am asking you to reconsider your statement. In reality, many college programs confer _skills_, not _status_. This narrative that colleges are for the elites is demonstrably untrue, runs counter to the founding mission of many of them, and strikes me as sour grapes. I know because I was one of the kids who struggled to afford college, went to a public one where I learned _skills_, which I then leveraged into a satisfying career.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_...

[2] https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizat...

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#102

Post by Balgair »

No one's mentioning it, but also the disease factor.

I remember the first semester in the dorms was mostly the sound of coughing.

Building up the immune system takes disease exposure and that takes time.

Addnib all the immune system depressants and increased exposure events there at Michigan - booze, pot, late nights, hookups, crowds, stress, etc - and you get a perfect storm for the immune system to take a beating.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#103

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL »

bradfa wrote: post #44
joezydeco wrote: post #15

When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, you can expect that they are going to throttle back once they're away from home with way more free time than is normal. From my kid's experience: she was up at 6:30am, in AP classes by 7:30am (three more to go during the day). Classes were done by 3:00, then sports practice…

Are normal adults not "working" in a similar way to your kid for 15+ hours per weekday? Comparable adult parent things would be up at 6am, prep kids for school day, in the office by 8am, 8 hours of work plus a lunch, departing the office around 5pm, transporting kids to/from some activities, dinner, helping kids with homework, somehow fit in regular shopping needs (food, essentials, etc), maybe some volunteering or h…

Children are part of hobbies.

Very challenging at times, but for example I sleep with my kid hugging me, or I chat with them while in the car, or we do chores while watching tv or something like that. And not every day is packed like that, you can tell your kids "no more than 3 times per week of activties, the other 2 days are for playdates", and that should be acceptable.

There are horrible days of the week, but it's not daily 15 hours of work. That's training for slavery.

Homework for break and homework for weekend should be STRONGLY ILLEGAL.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#104

Post by estearum »

raddan wrote: post #101
estearum wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ones that aren't competitive don't have the ultra-competitive dynamics described above. Not sure what your point is. That still doesn't mean they're not "for the elites." Universities are for people striving for upward mobility, i.e. to get into or maintain membership in the elite tiers of society. Also there is (obviously) significant variation in the upper end of the elite and the lower end.

More than a third of the US population has a college degree. [1] When you consider the fact that 20% of the US population are children [2] that means that roughly half of the eligible US population has a college degree. If “half” is elite, then I’m not sure what “elite” means, because it’s not very exclusive. > Not sure what your point is. Well, you said > All universities are for the elites. And then I countered tha…

[flagged]

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#105

Post by rayiner »

joezydeco wrote: post #15

When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, you can expect that they are going to throttle back once they're away from home with way more free time than is normal. From my kid's experience: she was up at 6:30am, in AP classes by 7:30am (three more to go during the day). Classes were done by 3:00, then sports practice…

[flagged]

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#106

Post by lotsofpulp »

boelboel wrote: post #65
alephnerd wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Naw. Adult life is so much easier with regards to competitive pressure compared to getting into a good college. The real world is Pass/Fail, much to the chagrin of plenty of HNers.

Sometimes I wonder where all these HNers work. The majority of "slightly below top companies" seem to consist of mediocre workers, which is fine. Employees are just doing their job and if they fuck up, even badly, it's not too difficult for them to get a new job. Meanwhile a student getting a few subpar grades, often for reasons beyond their control, should somehow be punished forever.

>Employees are just doing their job and if they fuck up, even badly, it's not too difficult for them to get a new job.

This might be news to many people. Or do you mean it’s not too difficult to get a new job at Walmart?

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#108

Post by liveoneggs »

joezydeco wrote: post #37
estearum wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Let me tell you about the scam of 'honors' classes in today's high schools. They not doing anything more introspective or challenging. It's the same classwork thrown at them faster and without as much teaching support. Just more to grind out. But when you don't understand something? You're smart, you'll figure it out . In return you get inflated GPAs that get you into better colleges. But if you can't figure it out o…

honors classes have better behavior

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#109

Post by odyssey7 »

jerlam wrote: post #38
dtj1123 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree. My first semester of university was straight up hazing, which at the time felt like crap. The consequence though, was that every single person who stayed on the course actually cared about being there. Staying motivated for the next three and a half years was made so much easier because the first six months were so difficult.

People called them "weeder" classes in my university. But it's better earlier rather than later. The consequences aren't severe and you can change majors, lessen your course load, or stop those volunteer opportunities. That's part of learning how to be an adult. I knew a few people my freshmen year that were put on academic probation. They turned out all right after making some drastic changes. Others simply disappea…

Apart from the notion of a moral obligation that may now seem quaint and old-fashioned, you’re talking about their customers who are paying for an education. The responsibility rests partly on the school for solving these challenges. Declaring students “weeds” would tell you all you need to know about the place.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#110

Post by neuroticnews25 »

estearum wrote: post #104
raddan wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More than a third of the US population has a college degree. [1] When you consider the fact that 20% of the US population are children [2] that means that roughly half of the eligible US population has a college degree. If “half” is elite, then I’m not sure what “elite” means, because it’s not very exclusive. > Not sure what your point is. Well, you said > All universities are for the elites. And then I countered tha…

[flagged]

> All universities are for the elites. I would love for that not to be the case

What would have to change for you to declare it's not the case?

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