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Don't Build Mindreading

lesswrong.com

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Re: Don't Build Mindreading

#11

Post by bigyabai »

mcphage wrote: post #10
bigyabai wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they are. This is a flight-of-fancy, a science-fiction diversion that has no relevance to any real world politics from the last century. Their "Nazis with a mind reader" scenario explains it perfectly; only a small minority of people were able to lie well enough to escape a regime with 1940s technology. Millions of other people were killed and the Nazis did not need a mind reader to find them. A modern author…

> It's a shame that today's "technologists" are eager to ignore the political axis of technology if it means they get to talk about ESP or Von Neumann machines. It's like I'm watching the field progress in reverse, transitioning from a crowd of self-righteous and skeptical consumers to a mystic and eschatological identity that eschews understanding. My brother in Christ, the call is coming from inside the house .

Reread my comments, I don't know how you're still confused about this. They are manufacturing a fictional scenario that does not significantly change the power imbalance of an authoritarian state, today or in their hypothetical example.

Today and in the Nazi era, there were functional social controls that served the same purpose and achieved, very clearly, dangerous results. No mind reading was necessary.

Re: Don't Build Mindreading

#12

Post by bigyabai »

mcphage wrote: post #8
nh23423fefe wrote: post #6

This is like reading an argument against multicellularity. The evil neurons are enslaving all the rest of us. Mind reading tech would obviously just be a new kind of language. Whatever state comes after would be unpredictable and emergent. It's not nazis with brain scanners.

> It's not nazis with brain scanners. Why not? Where do you suppose the nazis would go, once they got ahold of some brain scanners?

To modify the scanner to lie? Authoritarian states don't want the truth, it threatens their totalitarian ambitions.

You are making the same mistake as the author, gesturing towards the Nazis as if they were hamstrung by ethics and due process. They were not, they summarily executed their opponents without a chance for appeal. This is not the type of government that is systemically concerning itself with accuracy or collateral damage. The Wehrmacht was much more interested in the shock-and-awe style of terrorism that the V1 and V2 weapons afforded, there was no point in scrutinizing the German population further because their biggest interior threats had already been pogromed.

Re: Don't Build Mindreading

#13

Post by mcphage »

bigyabai wrote: post #11
mcphage wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a shame that today's "technologists" are eager to ignore the political axis of technology if it means they get to talk about ESP or Von Neumann machines. It's like I'm watching the field progress in reverse, transitioning from a crowd of self-righteous and skeptical consumers to a mystic and eschatological identity that eschews understanding. My brother in Christ, the call is coming from inside the house .

Reread my comments, I don't know how you're still confused about this. They are manufacturing a fictional scenario that does not significantly change the power imbalance of an authoritarian state, today or in their hypothetical example. Today and in the Nazi era, there were functional social controls that served the same purpose and achieved, very clearly, dangerous results. No mind reading was necessary.

Yep, that is what every collaborator tells themselves to justify their actions. “Oh, it’s not like I made any difference, they were already going to kill all those people.”

Re: Don't Build Mindreading

#14

Post by mcphage »

bigyabai wrote: post #12
mcphage wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not nazis with brain scanners. Why not? Where do you suppose the nazis would go, once they got ahold of some brain scanners?

To modify the scanner to lie? Authoritarian states don't want the truth, it threatens their totalitarian ambitions. You are making the same mistake as the author, gesturing towards the Nazis as if they were hamstrung by ethics and due process. They were not, they summarily executed their opponents without a chance for appeal. This is not the type of government that is systemically concerning itself with accuracy or c…

You’re probably right. The nazis, if given the opportunity to use this technology to root out dissidents, would probably just say “no thanks, we’re already so good at killing, we don’t need to bother with this new technology.”

Re: Don't Build Mindreading

#15

Post by throwaway_19sz »

bigyabai wrote: post #12
mcphage wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not nazis with brain scanners. Why not? Where do you suppose the nazis would go, once they got ahold of some brain scanners?

To modify the scanner to lie? Authoritarian states don't want the truth, it threatens their totalitarian ambitions. You are making the same mistake as the author, gesturing towards the Nazis as if they were hamstrung by ethics and due process. They were not, they summarily executed their opponents without a chance for appeal. This is not the type of government that is systemically concerning itself with accuracy or c…

You are mixing up what authoritarian leaders want to know with what they want the public to know.
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